Strength Renewed

00:19
Let's start there. I know. I know we could like almost start the conversation halfway through, but then people would not get the benefit of what we were even talking about. But of course, Jess, what we will just acknowledge is that we're thicken birthday month for you. Yes, thank you, Max. Love me some good June. I know. It's so good. So of course you have your health checks, which is great. And then your spray tan and your makeup, which is fantastic.

00:47
all the things I do. And you know, I can also add one more thing. My younger brother had a baby over the weekend. So I have a nephew. know it's, it's, it's been a week. It's been a fun. There's lots of things that June is June is, is, is pretty great. I'm here for the month of June, sister. that your first nephew? It's not. I, um, I have two other ones. Um, this is the first.

01:12
son of my younger brother and his wife and he came early so I told him I welcomed him into the preemie club so I was born two months early Evan my new nephew was born a month and a half early but he's like he's kicking ass and taking names and doing really well like he's like body's all sturdy and so he'll just get to live in this

01:39
hotel, which is like not really, but this this hospital is so freaking nice. So he's he's doing great. It's definitely been been a nice, a nice celebratory month. And it's not over yet. So I still have some some more partying things to do. So yeah, it's a shenanigans and you know, it's um, but all the while you continue to I'm I pause all the time on, you know, health and the definition of that every single day and

02:07
what that looks like and what that feels like. it's not just in case you all needed a reminder. It is not just about your protein intake and how much strength training you did and all the supplements you took. It is bigger. It is bigger. And related but a complete tangent is just enjoying some Ninja Creamy after my lunch. I have half Can we please talk about that for just a hot, just two seconds? Yeah.

02:35
Because you mentioned this every time and my mouth is always drooling. Just for everybody out there who hasn't had your Ninja Creamy, can you just quickly tell us what that is? So easy. It's basically, it is a scoop of protein powder and a scoop of 10 grams of collagen. And then you've got unsweetened almond milk. And then I put a little grind of salt. you literally, the machine, the instruction is to freeze it. And then you pop it in the Ninja Creamy machine and you blitz it up a few times.

03:04
put a little bit of a sort of something in it like a yogurt or a cottage cheese or an almond milk, whatever, but you make it really creamy. And it is literally like ice cream. You turn your protein shake into ice cream. is genius. And I got my machine two years ago. The problem is talking about health is that I, for the last, the last two times I've been doing this creamy, I've noticed little black flecks of plastic in the cream. So the creamy top is burning.

03:33
and going into my creamy and I'm like, okay, I need an update. Like, it is out of warranty. I am not bothered. I cannot be bothered with the admin of ringing up Ninja and going, should this be happening? And then they'll make me send it away and get it repaired or cheap. I'm like, ah, no way. I'm glad that it's another reason that we are such good friends is I'm a terrible return person. doing all the things and like.

03:59
Like I already died. You know what mean? I'm like, I just can't even, I know I'm like losing money as we say that, but I would rather do just about anything than follow the warranty or take something back. I'm just not a good return person. simply put like, I'm just not. And I did have that happen to me the other day. I don't have a Ninja thing, but I have a regular blender and we had ours forever. And the goddamn thing started to like burn on the bottom because I make probably three smoothies a day or something ridiculous. So it's getting its work

04:27
No pun intended. So you don't have the plastic flakes, but my mouth is watering of everything else. And I think you just put that little bit of, so it's unsweetened almond milk sometimes. I'll be honest, sometimes I get regular almond milk, but if I get the unsweetened, I'll.

04:39
remember that next time, but I have that, then it's collagen, it's scuba protein powder, and just a little dash of salt. And then you mix that thing up in the Ninja and then you stick it the freezer. No, you freeze it first. then comes out frozen first. like a ball. Yeah. And so the Ninja's job is to turn it into ice cream, turn this frozen block into ice Got it. Yeah. Okay. Perfect. I understand so simple. know. I mean, people get so inventive with their mix-ins and toppings and stuff. And I mean, one, I have it after

05:07
lunch. So I don't have the stomach space for like a huge amount anyway. But also like then like if you're putting Oreo cookies and that thing, marshmallows, chocolate chips, I mean delicious, but you turn it from this amazing protein rich voluminous snack into some ice cream treat, which is fine if that's what you're after. do that though. That's like our biggest, that's that is like we're the buck.

05:32
stops, you know, like I'm I do that. I've done this to myself. I totally sabotage a good thing. Yeah. You know, I like we'll take a take, you know, Greek yogurt for my treat. And I allow myself to have a little drizzle of maple syrup and maybe like a just a dropping of granola. But I have to stop there because otherwise it becomes a vehicle.

05:52
for too much stuff on top. So I'm like, you can have one or two, but you need to stop it right there. Because otherwise I'll just start pouring it all in there. do you know what, Jason, it's interesting. This is almost the antithesis of what we're talking about today. I will agree with you. You always lead us to where we need to go. I know. Which is great. The thing is, is that for some people that's absolutely fine. But actually for others, this is where their stall can sort of happen. But to my point about the antithesis, what I do want to talk about today is the

06:22
these invisible caps that particularly women put on, like we're just talking about, and I'm the same, you're the same, like we talk about it, and they're not invisible, they're obvious, but some people aren't aware that they do this, and it then ends up sort of backfiring on them. So can I explain what I mean, and then we just sort of roll it from there? Of course. Yeah.

06:46
This has come up a bit in my client consults of late and in part because some people that I'm chatting to are gearing up towards training for a big event like Kona Triathlon or they've got a big run coming up and whatever. And so they've got this sort of base intake of food that they eat and then they start doing a bit more activity, but they don't actually change the base of the intake that they are actually eating. So what happens there is that

07:13
then hunger ramps up because they're not actually eating enough to support their activity. But instead of like looking for sort of better sources of things, they're just increasing the amount of incidental treats that are going in. That's one person. But also another person is just the- Repeat that last person again. It's the one that they're ramping up their training. They're like getting ready for a big event. And then what do they do sometimes? So their base-

07:40
food doesn't change. So regardless of whether they're doing a two hour run in the morning or they're doing an 80 minute run, they'll have the same breakfast. Got it. And that breakfast is great if you're doing an 80 minute run, but now you've run an extra 40 minutes, but you're still eating the same breakfast. And like, oh, a hungry, but whatever. And then they'll go to lunch and they don't change what they have for lunch. They still feel a bit hungry, but they'll continue to eat lunch because we have these invisible caps that we should be put on what we can eat.

08:08
We can't eat over a certain number of calories. For a lot of women, it's like 500. You get more than 500 calories in that meal, you're eating too much. know, this is this, they might not be aware of that thought pattern, but it's sort of there. Or you can't have any more than the small, whatever you're ordering, because if I order a medium or a large, I'm a bit of a guts if I do that. But, the person that's ordering the one that is still hungry, you're saying for lunch,

08:37
like you're training for the 90 minute whatever event or where you run earlier that day, like, and they're still staying with that smaller lunch, even though they're hungry. And you're saying, why are you doing that? Like add a little extra something to that meal. Yeah. And it's not, and I'm not questioning why they're doing it because I know why they're doing it. Even in that moment, I was like, oh, she's probably going to say they should just stay there or less. See, that's where my brain went. And you're like, no, you're like, no, add.

09:07
I'm always in depth as I'm always thinking it's too much. You know what I mean? Or stay. And I know, I'm not asking them necessarily why they're doing that because I already know why they're doing that because they've got this invisible cat where they're like, can't, you know, if you eat more than 500 calories in a meal, this was my friend, Nikki and I were having this conversation on our run this morning. Like you eat more than that, you're eating too much. You know, if you're

09:35
serving portion is any more than just this amount on a plate. You're a guts and you're eating too much. And these are the thought patterns that people have in their head about how they talk to themselves or how they perceive others to talk. And so you through the day and the problem is at the end of the day, you're eating peanut butter cups. You're eating a creamy with all the mix-ins or you're continuing or you've got the nut butter jar out and you're like, well, I'm not having chocolate.

10:03
Instead, I'll have nut butter. And then you end up eating about half a cup of nut butter. I do that all the time. That one, well, I do less now because you kicked my ass on that one too many times. And now I'm like, just leave the nut butter alone. I've always said, this is better. At least you're healthier, right? You're eating nut butter over the peanut butter cups. But then you reminded me that the caloric intake is like, you're like, well, you have four.

10:30
you know, tablespoons of that. So you just loaded 600 calories. So really, your two peanut butter cups probably would have been a better option. option. Yeah. For tablespoons than your peanut butter. I do that so often subconsciously. I rank food in the way we probably subconsciously rank other shit too. You know what I mean? Like, right? We do this weird thing all the time. It's okay if I read, but I can't watch TV because to watch TV I'm lazy. to read. There. Boom.

11:00
I know, it's exactly the same thing. Don't catch me scrolling on social media, but I can do this thing. On and on and on. We put this moral judgment on not only those behaviors we just mentioned, but I do think as well on ourselves for our choices on food. And to the point of your point and my point about the nut butters, the mixes, the creamies, and that it's not necessarily an issue from a calorie perspective for everyone, but what they're doing is it's

11:30
It can be. So this is where people I see who struggle to lose weight, often they overshoot at the end of the night because of it. But also they're not utilizing, like they've been active during the day. That's when you want to fuel the machine. That's when you want the higher calories. Instead of having, you know, a slice of toast, you do want two slices of toast. And I think this is where health conscious people

11:55
who are also weight conscious can go a little awry. And I'm absolutely part of the problem. So don't worry. I know that I, I fuel this in people as well is that we're so focused on getting protein in that we, that we don't necessarily think about other things. And, and we stop when it's not that we don't listen to our appetite, but if we did, we'd probably eat more food.

12:21
Yes. Because we're hungry. Well, there's no question. think two things that you said in the throes of that. mean, everything that we've kind of continued that I always do my absolute best. And you're now allowing me to, take a lot of this, these complex things that we talk about, you know, on some of our lives and our podcasts that are like very, you know, sciency about the body. And I just kind of take the little nugget, like, you know, just the fact that like,

12:44
eating protein alone, you're burning more calories, right? Like it's just, it's just, so this kind of concept is like, it's easier to kind of run with that when you're making food choices throughout the day. We've also another gem you always give me that I carry out into the universe is like, you know, kind of like,

13:03
put it in and then use it, right? So now even at dinnertime, I'm not doing anything crazy, but I walk around the block after dinner or even walk around laps in my driveway. I'm not crazy. I'm just trying to tell my body when I eat, needed to go, you're using it. It's fuel, fuel source. And then the third thing, the nighttime thing, my theory around that is it's like a finish line for people. Like I was so good, good, even just saying it alone sounds very like, ugh.

13:32
But I was so good, right throughout the day that I deserve to have some extra toppings. Yeah. I'm a ninja Cramie and I definitely deserve to have a few peanut butter cups, which is my story of my life for sure. But like it's that that finish line concept is just a really dangerous kind of place to be because it's every night. It's every night. The finish line is every night. Yeah. And it's not. And so a couple of things with that, like, is that it's not that the

14:00
the cups themselves are the issue is, but you just don't want to be hungry there. You've had a whole day of exercise and eating. This is If you're focusing on protein and still hungry at the end of the day, you're under eaten. And that's how I think about it. And people listening to this are our audience and they are people who will be dialing in their protein and they will be, if they experience this, then a hundred percent that that's the same sort of deal. And to your point, you know,

14:28
I've eaten, therefore I've exercised, we need to flip that on its head. If you've exercised, make sure you're eating. It's actually the opposite concept, if you like. Say that again. Make it make sense one more time. So say what you just said again. Okay, so to your point, you were like, if I've eaten, I have to exercise, get around the block to make my body move, because it's fuel.

14:56
But actually, if you've exercised, you need to eat. Right. So we flip it up. We flip it up. Whereas so much we're in that deficit, restrictive deprivation mindset that it's like, put it all out, but don't think about putting it back in.

15:13
Right. And that probably came a little off a little weird because you're like, oh, God, Jessica, so you're eating and then going exercise. No, no, no, you're not at all. Because I love it. you actually Yes. So that was really the principle around that is like just eating and digestion and just kind of reminding your body like.

15:30
But even at dinnertime, like, because obviously during the day, it's easier for me to like, kind of get up and move around a little bit. But at night, sometimes I just don't tend to do that. So I'm just saying maybe five, six, seven, 10 minutes, whatever it is, I just kind of move around a little bit, a little walk just so that my body knows this is what it had to, you know, just kind of process it. you know, you're right, there is a system you have to you do have to kind of flip that that thing, because if you're

15:53
We say to my son who's 14, who literally is currently eating us out of house and home because he's working out, he's training two sports right now, six hours a day. It's a lot. so, and you just can't fuel him enough. I'm going grocery store like two times a day. But obviously I'm not a 14 year old boy, I do have to, I really am trying to think and I hope for all of us like just to think about how we're fueling. You know what I mean? Like I really want to eat for energy.

16:22
Yeah, 100%. Rather than just, I a good girl today? shit. It just comes from like drama from my childhood. Do you know what? What you've just described is seriously like so many people out there. And I absolutely, over the years, that's one of the, you know, that's been such a work on. My Brandon, is, who's been on my podcast several times and we DM almost daily on like,

16:50
topics and stuff that come up. you know, he did a great podcast on nutrient and timing, which is so like, I need to talk to him again about it actually, because it's, he's very nuanced. So it's not just, I train faster or not? There's just so much that goes into it. And he talks about, you know, if you are just about the cortisol response to exercise, which is a necessary and normal part of exercise. But, equally, if you're going in always sort of under fueled and under fed,

17:20
then actually that's, and we talk about this a lot, that's actually the problem. that's where- Do your cortisol levels just spike up so much higher than when you go into the exercise underfield? I think it's less about the spike and more about how quickly they come down. Because it's the chronic elevation, it's not the spike. Ah, very good. That makes a ton of sense. And are you in chronic elevated cortisol mode when you're just undernourishing?

17:49
Yeah, yeah. And you feel it too. Like there's that slight sympathetic undertone. know, that slight like, so, and, you know what, just like everything, like as you, you're even just a couple of those comments you said, like that's exactly how so many people think about it. It's so normal. It's normal. It's common. It's common. And we've normalized It's good to name this stuff. You know what I mean? I feel like part of how we evolve, I mean, is just to give name to it, right? To be able to like,

18:19
talk about what the heck this means, you know what mean? And why we're thinking this way. just mostly so that you can separate the rational brain from the emotional brain just for a hot second. I'm not saying I do it in every decision that I make, but I do, food is so integral. It's your entire day. If you think about how, you eat.

18:40
probably just as much as you do anything. It gets a lot of hours, right? So you really need to study it and think about it and just sort of understand that. that piece, that cap thing, just again, kind of you went back to your beginning example of having, that's one place, obviously, you coach and you help.

19:10
clients that are training for big events. But it is kind of a funny concept that to think that they wouldn't alter their meals in some way. You know what I mean? It's like, well, here's this big event and they're still potentially under eating. they just can't seem to. And just so people know, I use that as an example. That's like 5 % of my people.

19:30
I was just going to say, because I can hear everybody going like, oh, it must be so hard to under-eat. I get that you're rolling your eyes right now as you heard that one, because we're not part of that category. And it's not an athlete. It's not just an athlete thing. is something which athletes struggle with. Anyone that's ever had to be conscious about what they put in their mouths or who has been conscious will have these invisible caps of, if they're tracking their calories, it'll be like, well, if I keep this under 500.

19:58
If you did that for three meals a day, you'd be eating under 1500 calories, maybe appropriate for some, but it might be too little for others. And that's why if you are dialing in your food and you're following a lot of the structure that you and I talk about all the time with protein and with fiber and volume, and you're hungry, you need to eat more because you're actually ignoring. So people who don't eat that way, it's difficult for them to tune into their actual hunger cues because so often it's coming off

20:28
blood sugar spikes and, oh my God, this is so good. That's so good. Yeah. That comment right there is so huge. like that is such an important thing right there. Like you, you've stopped recognizing if you are, are you hungry because you haven't eaten enough during the day or are you hungry now? Cause you effed up your, your blood sugar. But you know I mean? Like that's kind of a, that's an interesting thing. I'm not even sure the answer to that.

20:56
Yeah, but if you book the way to sort of determine it is am I hitting my protein? Am I hitting my fiber? That's a got it. Those because those things are the two fundamentals for helping balance your blood sugar. Ah, bingo. If you're doing all that, yeah, you're hungry. You're under eating. Hmm. That is so like, like, I love that. I love when you when when it's just

21:23
that straightforward because sometimes it really can be, you know what I mean? Like just hold on to the two things, protein and fiber, and we'll remind you of good fiber sources. That one always seems to get lost in the universe for me. Honestly, people can go to ChatGPT, get your fiber source from there. That's what I was thinking too. This is exactly it. Go to your main, go to your ChatGPT, put that in and then keep a list. That's what I've been doing too. Whenever I go to the grocery store, I just open up my note app.

21:52
or something. So I'm heading down, you know, and this is a great season and where we are just for fruits and things like that, because there's fiber in there. But I love that concept. Like if you've been eating enough fiber and protein throughout the day and you're starving at night. know it's pretty obvious when you put it like that. And I guess it's not though, because it's not obvious to me because I'm hungry and sometimes I am hungry and I do have this weird relationship mostly at the end of the night.

22:22
where I'm afraid, this is such a weird fucked up thing, but since we're here, I'm afraid sometimes to eat like Greek yogurt or another half a chicken breast, or I'm like, no, no, no, that's like, that's too much. Like I'll just have a little tea and two peanut butter cups. Like it's so funny. Like to me, I'm like, that's better. Your voice in my head is pretty loud. So often it's like, this is what I see you doing in the, you know what I mean? If you were like in my kitchen, like,

22:52
Come on. But it's still so hardwired in me. know I'm not alone. I know there's people out there that are going, yep, I do what Jessica does. But that's kind when we were talking about this conversation earlier, I kind of also saw that like a cap concept around that too. Like I'm capped already from eating real food. Now it's nighttime and I should just have this little bit of treat because I can't possibly have Greek yogurt right now.

23:17
chicken. You know what I mean? Yeah, no, I know what you mean. And I feel like and there's nothing wrong with the PB cup. And in fact, if you ever to eat chocolate, I would say it's after a meal when you're not hungry. You don't want to be having it when you're hungry. Okay, so fair. There's a little bit. Okay, so good. Yeah, yeah. But that but you shouldn't be starving. You should look like universal you should look forward to food and feel hungry for it. But then feel satisfied after the meal. I am going to be

23:47
paying more attention to hunger cues. And I'm still gonna allow myself to have a chocolate peanut butter cup, but I'm also gonna have a little half a cup of Greek yogurt if need be too. Cause the other funny thing about all this is that to remind people is that that, you know, serving size of non-fat plain Greek yogurt not added is like 110 calories. You know I mean? Like overall it's like, and it's super freaking satiating. And I'm probably not gonna, I probably had that.

24:15
even though I could allow myself to have two peanut butter cups after, I'm probably not going to want them because I'm going to be full from my 110 calorie like freaking, you know, three quarter cup nonfat Greek yogurt. And for people who are counting like, and maybe also for you Jess, like if you ate earlier in the day, if you had the opportunity to eat more at the times you do eat, because this is the other, this is why people struggle, then maybe that is a nut that I guess that's my point is that if your meals were bigger,

24:44
And if you had more calories coming in at your meal time when you were sort of needing it, because you're hungry, and it's from good food, then it's an easier, it's better than being hungry at the end of the day after your I think that's true. Yeah. think it's starting to feel a little bit more logical. Gosh almighty though, these mindset shifts are

25:12
unbelievably hardwired in, I'm supremely grateful. Really, because without having these discussions, without bringing this into the universe, I feel like people are feel in prison a little bit. You know what I mean? Like they're literally stuck. so until they hear Mickey and Jess like have a little conversation over tea about it, it's like, oh yeah, okay. All right, let me kind of get behind this a little bit more and try it on. And I always say that the...

25:40
habits are just small changes done incrementally over time. And then all of sudden you're doing things a little differently and maybe you feel a little differently too. But gosh, it's just nice to hear it communicated this way because there is a genuine fear of food sometimes for me. know what I mean? So it's just, I think if we can break the fear cycle. agree. And actually, and to your point, talk about it. also, it's sort of

26:08
demystifies and does sort of allay some of that, some of that fear. so Jess, maybe what you need to do is to send me a text every time you're like, at the end of the day, you're like, I'm hungry. Do I want that chicken breast? And I'll be like, yes, Jessica, you do. And then you'll know, you'll have your little third person coaching you through. And this is accountability, isn't it? Like part of it is, like this is coaching. This is what you and I do in different areas.

26:36
And so it's just as important to sometimes think about it from an addition and an eating opportunity rather than always just like reducing, I guess, as well. Yeah, so when you also think about it too, it's like going back to those like abundant scarcity mindsets too, right?

26:53
You're like, here is a deeper, richer way. And I know I help you with some of those psychological things. You're like, I can't get to the other side of this particular relationship situation. I'm like, here, let's come in. Let me dissect it, and we'll do it this way. it's the same kind of thing. I can live in an abundant way around food. I can eat, you know what I mean, and enjoy it. I can have this bigger, fuller experience. But most of my life has always been about.

27:20
to some degree, probably a little bit of deprivation. You know what I mean? And I think we just have these weird false ways of controlling our food. Next conversation will be about different allergies and things that people feel like, well, I can't have this and I can't have that, or my stomach feels upset. I think that's a whole kind of another discussion around how we, the scarce mindset around food too. Well, we will lock it in for next time. All right, Jess, well.

27:48
I know you've got to run. I've got to run. Thank you for this conversation. yet until we say what we're grateful for. course, Max. Oh, yeah. What are you grateful for? I am grateful to have this opportunity to have the conversation. It's been on my mind. And I feel like just putting it out there hopefully will help people just even be aware that it's there. This isn't everyone, but it's a lot of people. And if you struggle in this area, then I think even just to your point, naming it and talking about it super helpful. So thank you.

28:17
I am so grateful and thank you and just think to yourself since I love a good acronym, just think P and F, protein and fiber. Love it. Or M and J, Mickey and Jess. Amazing. You're the protein, I'm the fiber. There you go.

28:40
I'm grateful for you and everybody else. you See you later. Bye. Bye.

29:01
you