Strength Renewed

Jessica (00:00.152)
talk about our life.

Mikki Wiiliden (00:02.354)
Amazing hi Tess, you're wearing a lovely, I love that Nike sweatshirt. Are you wearing the sweatsuit? Or is it too hot for the pants?

Jessica (00:08.77)
I have, good question. It's actually, this is so pathetic. There's air conditioning, because we're here in Newport Beach right now. And it's really, it's like perfect temperature outside, but then you come into these hotel rooms and they're like freezing cold. So I had to quickly put on a sweatshirt because I went from being hot and lovely and just like perfect with a little breeze to.

Mikki Wiiliden (00:24.83)
Phrasing.

Jessica (00:34.062)
needing to put on the sweatshirt. But honestly, besides our Aviator Nation ones that I tend to always love to wear when you and I do our shows, this is my like second favorite sweatshirt. I'm obsessed. It makes me realize why the hell do I always wear gray and black? I wear gray and black all the time, mix. I can't get myself out of it. I have 72, well, know, like black tank tops, like varietal, and same thing with the sweatshirts. But whenever I wear this pink getup, I actually, I feel happy. I think there's something to this.

Mikki Wiiliden (00:43.348)
It's lovely. I love it. I love it. I know. Yeah. Yeah.

Mikki Wiiliden (00:55.952)
Yeah

Mikki Wiiliden (01:02.492)
Yeah, well it's funny, was chatting, I was on a run with my friend Nikki today and she was saying the same thing, that she was feeling just a little bit under the weather and she's like, damn it, I've got myself a black, my outfit for work is black and I knew it. I was thinking I'm a bit low for this but she just couldn't bring herself to put any color into it, albeit it was lovely outfit but yeah.

Jessica (01:04.342)
I know.

Yeah.

Jessica (01:16.683)
Yeah.

Jessica (01:22.637)
I mean, do you wear color? Do you like to wear color? Or like, no?

Mikki Wiiliden (01:26.42)
Jess, you see me most weeks. I probably had like two or three black things. Black, black, black things.

Jessica (01:29.453)
I do. You have two or three. Yeah. Well, there could be the secret side of you where you're like, you know, a little bit. I see you. I see you rotate. seeing you love what I love about you is you love a good vest. You love a guy. He kind of seems where those like kind of cute, like sort of like little hoodie vest things. And I think those are like so perfect because you're it's a late it's like you're a layered person to have to like take off clothes when you need to.

Mikki Wiiliden (01:47.388)
Yeah.

Mikki Wiiliden (01:54.086)
I am. And in fact, and I have, I think I have like two black tops. All of them are colours. Like I, and I've got, and I like to rotate my sweatshirts. Yeah.

Jessica (02:02.061)
We're like the opposite. Look at us. This is what we, again, another reason we work. You were all the color, I were all the black and gray, but then we come together and form a bit of a rainbow. But it does make you feel better. I think there is a real truth in wearing color.

Mikki Wiiliden (02:09.107)
There you go. Yeah. Mmm. I agree. Yeah. It's like getting out in the sun. Like, you know, you just, need the sort of brightness. Anyway, but you're in, you're having a little vacay slash school tourno.

Jessica (02:25.089)
We in our family, call, so we call what we do now, we call them sportcations. Because if you have a very athletic child and you play on these club teams, then you are traveling to tournaments all during the year and it becomes a little crazy. So we can't always get to have all of the vacations, but when you go to beautiful places like this for your sports.

Mikki Wiiliden (02:32.197)
Yes.

Mikki Wiiliden (02:52.083)
Mmm.

Jessica (02:53.559)
Then we just decide to make it a bit of a holiday for Jeff and I and Gemma. so, and really what it turns out into is not seeing a lot of our son, because he's with the team and doing all this. It's really, it really gives our daughter a ton of Gemma can get all of our focus. So that's kind of nice. So we like, we're here, but we're in Newport Beach and it's super cute, home of the frozen banana, which we're going to go have after this. A frozen chocolate dip banana, I should say. So everybody knows, so yeah.

Mikki Wiiliden (03:10.617)
yeah although it's nice

Mikki Wiiliden (03:22.726)
Yeah, yeah.

Jessica (03:23.287)
Hi, how do you like that? I like to pretend to that just a little healthy because I'm having a banana. Hey, fruit and chocolate, it's so good. Have you heard of this brand called True Fruit? True Fruit?

Mikki Wiiliden (03:28.371)
Oh, totally, it's fruit. It's fruit and chocolate. No, I love that. Yeah. Yeah, yep.

Mikki Wiiliden (03:37.445)
I have actually, I've seen they're like, people talk about like dark chocolate, cherry, cherries and yes, yes, yes, yes, Yeah.

Jessica (03:43.804)
Yes, cherries and raspberries and they're like almost like little bonbon looking things, but they're like a piece of chocolate dipped fruit. It's so fabulous. And I was like, well, you know, mean, that, that is not the worst thing to put in your mouth. And so, right. And so they have, this is what like this little bubble island, which is near Newport beach. This is kind of what they're known for. They have these like cute little ice cream stands and one of them are frozen chocolate dip bananas, which are like, mean, like right now top three desserts.

Mikki Wiiliden (03:50.726)
Amazing.

Mikki Wiiliden (03:56.109)
Not at all. Yeah.

Mikki Wiiliden (04:08.561)
or lovely. Yeah, and do you make them at home with your kids?

Jessica (04:11.894)
for me.

I mean, no, because I'd much rather pay $10 to buy one on vacation. But that is definitely something that that is not hard to do everybody. So take some frozen fruit and, you know, sprinkle a little, you know, dip it in chocolate, right? You tell your clients this and then you just stick it back in the freezer and then you've got like, right, it's not hard. And then you

Mikki Wiiliden (04:18.349)
Yeah.

Mikki Wiiliden (04:24.552)
Yeah.

Mikki Wiiliden (04:29.021)
Dip it in chocolate. Yeah.

Mikki Wiiliden (04:36.879)
Yeah, it wouldn't be hard. But to your point, it could lose its appeal. Sometimes things are special because they're at a certain place or they're part of what you do rather than because you really love the thing. You probably wouldn't love it as much.

Jessica (04:51.615)
But what we have been doing, and this kind of speaks to what we're about to talk about, is I've been really focused on moving after dinner. So some bit of a walk, which I wasn't doing really as much before, because it's like nighttime and you're just kind of settling in. But Jeff and I have been either putting the kids down to bed or just kind of letting them hang and then getting a little walk in. And while we've been here, we've kind of been doing the same thing. we'll just, yeah, we're going to go get a treat, but at least we're walking to get it.

Mikki Wiiliden (05:01.596)
Mm. Mm-hmm.

Mikki Wiiliden (05:18.769)
lovely.

Jessica (05:21.196)
So, and then it helps with all of those positive things that you were talking about with like blood sugar regulation and just digestion and getting your at more steps in. It actually is kind of this really powerful thing that I continue to remind people that it's not the big things. It's actually things like that that move the dial.

Mikki Wiiliden (05:21.265)
Yeah, yeah, and.

Mikki Wiiliden (05:39.347)
They really do and I was thinking about it today because I had a client this last week and she's like super dialed in on her diet. I mean, there are obviously there are areas that she could improve and so we chatted a little bit about it. She's, you know, she's got her A1C under control from pre-diabetic to within the normal range and always room for improvement, but she's done super well. And, you know, she's, and she's like, I just can't lose weight and I just cannot see where in my diet I can make this shit.

Jessica (06:08.779)
Okay.

Mikki Wiiliden (06:09.301)
And so we talked through what she was doing and ultimately and I'm like, you know what? I agree. You can't really pull anything else out in your diet. And then of course what had come up earlier in the conversation, which I then revisited was like, you actually need to be a bit more active because right now what's happened is she's dropped her calories to the point where they're super low.

Jessica (06:27.434)
you

Jessica (06:33.386)
Hmm.

Mikki Wiiliden (06:34.149)
And then she's also not doing almost any like she'll be getting two to three thousand steps a day max She's like doing strength training maybe a couple of times a week, but that's like nothing really that doesn't do anything for sort of energy flux and i'm like You know what what we need to do is get you moving more so you've got the or just more sort of Well caloric expenditure and that's where we're going to see a shift for you and then ultimately over time You'll be able to eat more food as well because when you just really

Jessica (06:39.689)
Okay.

Jessica (06:44.563)
Yeah.

Jessica (06:50.58)
Mm.

Mikki Wiiliden (07:04.063)
whole calorie super low, like everything dials down, like your non-exercise activity, you your spontaneous sort of movement just, you know, does nothing. I mean, sorry, it goes super low. And she herself said, you know what, like I don't do a lot during the day. Like I sort of sit on the couch, she's retired. And I'm like, okay, we need to get you onto some sort of baseline step program and then start there and then build from there. Because I said, you know, ultimately, you want to be doing eight to 10,000 steps and you've got no reason.

Jessica (07:21.852)
Yeah, yeah.

Mikki Wiiliden (07:34.023)
not to, albeit we can't start there with you because you're only at about 2000 so we need to yeah bring it up.

Jessica (07:38.876)
Right, that's right. Yeah. But it's an interesting point. And I guess people would say that like they don't have the energy maybe because their calories are low. Is that way they're not getting the extra movement in? Because they're tired? Yeah. Or they just don't know. You know, maybe. Yeah.

Mikki Wiiliden (07:47.699)
Mmm.

Mikki Wiiliden (07:53.445)
I think a little bit that, but also physical activity and physical activity makes you feel more energized as well, but you don't know it until you do it. At the moment you sort of feel like there's this, it's like, my gosh, there's just one more thing I have to do and I'm already feeling a bit exhausted. But actually you feel better once you move more, your blood flows easier, you're able to get some fresh air in, you get more oxygen in.

Jessica (08:04.115)
Sure. That's right.

Jessica (08:12.125)
This is it. This is it.

Mikki Wiiliden (08:23.369)
you know, all of these things sort of bring energy and then you get this pleasant weariness at the end of the day then your sleep is better so there's just so many positives for building up that energy flux.

Jessica (08:23.879)
Yes!

Jessica (08:31.005)
This is it. This is it. Yeah. Yeah. And is that so, so, so, so we were kind of talking about this because you brought this up earlier, energy flux, right? So, so maybe just go ahead and kind of like, cause I kind of was just talking about walking to get a banana, but really that's so much bigger than that because it's a piece now to my day, especially the timing of it too. I've been a lot more mindful of the timing of movement and with

Mikki Wiiliden (08:43.357)
Yeah.

Jessica (08:59.774)
blood sugar and with energy and with sleep. And I find that doing that bit of a walk after dinnertime is really critical for me. Because I get, I'm moving, you know, whatever throughout the day, but that last little bit at night seems to be really helpful for me in that area. And so, and for all the reasons I think that I just said, but I hadn't really thought about it that way. I just kind of dismissed it. I was like, I'm tired. In fact, if anything,

Mikki Wiiliden (09:02.003)
Mmm.

Mikki Wiiliden (09:16.508)
Mmm.

Jessica (09:25.416)
I find sometimes that I'll eat a little bit more and because of that, like it feels extra imperative to kind of get that walk in. But then you, so just sort of like maybe going back to summing up what energy sort of flux is, what that even means for the person listening and just, are your clients my clients?

Mikki Wiiliden (09:33.702)
Yeah.

Mikki Wiiliden (09:46.887)
Yeah, it's it's you know, like people can because we I was talking about it in a fat loss context of this lady and and you can either eat very low calories and do low low and create a calorie deficit just through diet alone and not think about energy expenditure So the number of calories you actually burn so they by by default will also be quite low So this is someone who's not that active and you can lose weight that way But a more sort of robust way to lose weight is actually get your your energy expenditure up do more movement

Jessica (09:52.243)
Mm-hmm.

Mikki Wiiliden (10:16.821)
do more exercise, get that blood flowing, build that muscle, burn those calories because then you've got that flux of calories of the energy that you're burning and the energy that you're is just far greater. And so when you're in a low energy flux, you're eating low calories, but when you're in a higher energy flux, which is not where she is now, but where ideally she will be after a period of time, she can eat more calories, feel more satisfied, and see more

Jessica (10:46.28)
Hmm.

Mikki Wiiliden (10:46.741)
results that she's currently not seeing because her overall energy expenditure is super low. So you just create this more of a calorie burn if you like.

Jessica (10:57.862)
Okay, so all makes complete sense. Going back to this client though of yours who has a low caloric intake right now and her activity level is low too. you're saying kind of, here's your, people can't see this in our listeners, like they can on YouTube. But right here is their calories and their energies here. But so if they bring up their energy just expenditure right about here with that same calorie level.

Mikki Wiiliden (11:05.363)
Mmm.

Jessica (11:27.654)
Like that's kind of what you're getting at. And then as the activity level kind of raises up, then the caloric intake can raise up a little bit too. Does that sort of, okay.

Mikki Wiiliden (11:36.359)
Yeah, but your hands are in the wrong place. currently she would sort of be like, her calories and her energy expenditure is both really low. So if we bring this up, she'll start burning some more calories than what she's expending.

Jessica (11:46.714)
Okay.

Jessica (11:51.91)
If you bring that left hand is the calorie hand then, right?

Mikki Wiiliden (11:54.611)
this is calories and this is energy expenditure. So bring your expenditure up and then you'll be able to bring your calories up as well. you still, and this is how you fuel the body to build lean muscle and regardless of your age and then you start to feel better because you can eat more but still get leaner because you're more active, live an active high energy flat.

Jessica (11:57.135)
Yep, I get it.

Jessica (12:07.623)
Okay.

Jessica (12:16.007)
But you have to bring the calories up though, why you're, sorry, you have to bring the activity level up while you're still in kind of a lower calorie state, right? That's how that works.

Mikki Wiiliden (12:27.987)
You don't have to but for some people you sort of do because if you've just bottomed out on your calories and you can't go and lifting them would mean that you would start gaining weight then you do need, but right now she's not in a deficit because her weight's not moving so we need to create that deficit first and then you can sort of stepwise and as she's increasing her energy you can start to potentially increase those calories albeit she'll probably feel a lot less hungry even on the same number of calories.

Jessica (12:32.752)
Okay, yeah.

Mikki Wiiliden (12:58.081)
because there's this uncoupling that happens with calories and energy expenditure. So someone on super low, who should be on super low calories and has very low energy output, they have this uncoupling of their appetite. So they feel hungrier because they're not as active. And I know that seems counterintuitive, but exercise can help regulate the appetite as well. So you can feel less hungry when you do slightly more activity too.

Jessica (13:21.222)
Wow.

Jessica (13:26.513)
That is such an interesting, again, I love this. This was like the mind blow the other day when you're like, hey, guess what? If you're actually eating more protein and more dense food, you can actually eat more, right? Eat more to lose weight is this weird thing. People still are like, what? Same thing there. I always think people are like, well, if I exercise more and I move more, I'm going to be more hungry, and it's going to make me want to eat more. And right there, you just kind of debunk that whole theory.

Mikki Wiiliden (13:39.068)
Yeah.

Mikki Wiiliden (13:42.663)
Yeah.

Mikki Wiiliden (13:55.271)
Definitely, yeah, and definitely for people who are not active yet. So probably your general active person, they will get an uptick in appetite, I think. But if you are like my client who are doing 2,000 steps a day, which is actually the norm for a lot of people, that if you just go to the office, do your job, you go home, you're just around the house, and then you sit down and you go to bed, not a lot of steps to be had.

Jessica (13:56.282)
Mm-hmm.

Jessica (14:02.33)
Mm-hmm. Sure, sure.

Jessica (14:11.515)
That's right. That's right.

Jessica (14:21.194)
No, that's right. So I think for people, once you kind of stop seeing the dial mover type of thing, that's when you're cue to kind of increase your activity level alongside with that calorie intake and then you can kind of mess with them a little bit more. But you do have to get more steps and you do have to get more movement at some point, right?

Mikki Wiiliden (14:44.241)
I think for people who are currently not doing much at all, Like if you're already, yeah, if you're already doing, Well they're probably already in a high energy flux model. So they're already like burning a lot of calories, they're probably eating a lot of calories and depending on their goal, they're either maintaining their weight or they may, or they could easily be in a calorie deficit still if they're doing enough activity. So.

Jessica (14:48.463)
Correct. That's one demographic. Sure. If you already are, then how would you describe energy flux for that person?

Jessica (15:12.058)
What do you say to the person who's doing enough activity and then would you just look and isn't and wants to lose weight and is mindful of their calories, then what kind of conversation are you having with that person?

Mikki Wiiliden (15:26.355)
Well that person is, if they're not being rigorous, that's with their calories, it's the calorie side of things. Very, very blanket-like, because of course there could be other things going on that might need to be checked, like what's their thyroid doing? But there'll be symptoms of that. But if they're feeling good, they're like, you know, I feel like I'm eating really well and I'm moving really well but nothing's shifting, and they're legitimately moving a lot and eating good food, then it's just a case of eating too much.

Jessica (15:32.485)
Mm-hmm.

I figured.

Jessica (15:41.744)
Sure.

Jessica (15:47.875)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yep.

Jessica (15:57.005)
I see. And then that goes back to eating the higher quality, higher protein, higher dense food, more of it, less of the other stuff.

Mikki Wiiliden (16:05.647)
It's tracking your diet because if you're already eating well, then it's likely you're eating too much somewhere. So you need to be quite rigorous about what you're doing to figure out what that looks like. Even the good stuff, exactly, avocado and nuts and olive oil and cooking oil, they're all great, but they can all add up pretty quickly.

Jessica (16:16.631)
Yeah, even the good stuff.

now.

Jessica (16:27.898)
I always tell people at this point too with weight loss because you're right, there's a lot of factors, but sometimes if you're really just kind of trying to talk about energy flux this way, which is, I'm just kind of summing it up with like calories and movement, that kind of balance between the two. I think that's when you really have to kind of deep dive into the amounts of the good food that you're having and what you're having because avocados are great, but like.

Mikki Wiiliden (16:41.939)
Mmm.

Yeah.

Jessica (16:56.463)
they're like a ton of calories and a ton of fat. so you really have, like, I said this to myself too, like if I was having like half of one, I need to have a quarter of one. Like, it's like you peel back the area that you, where you, where you can. I've looked at that many times before. I'm like, well, I love that, but I can have this as the dressing instead. And there's like five calories there, easy. you know, it's, it's a, it's more precision, I think, at that point. But I think that too, when it comes to energy,

Mikki Wiiliden (16:57.875)
Mmm.

Mikki Wiiliden (17:04.772)
Yes.

Mikki Wiiliden (17:09.106)
Yeah.

Mikki Wiiliden (17:13.519)
Yeah, yeah.

Mikki Wiiliden (17:18.637)
Mmm. Yeah.

Jessica (17:25.913)
When it comes to energy flux, think it's also just a matter of increasing slowly. I say this a lot to my clients when we start kettlebells because often it feels very overwhelming to them. But one reason why I introduce kettlebells and why I have it as a big part of my strength training practice is that you don't have to do a lot of it. Do you know what mean? Like you could literally do, it's true, it sounds ridiculous, but you can do five to 10 minutes. Like that's what you're doing.

Mikki Wiiliden (17:46.29)
Yeah.

Mikki Wiiliden (17:52.467)
Mmm.

Jessica (17:54.317)
And that's a fantastic place for a strength base because it is so cardiovascular while it's simultaneously very, you know, much on the muscular endurance side too. So you're the, the, I would say the barrier to entry is not big, just a little bit is really kind of all you need. then you, you know, you can add from there, but it's kind of like adding to your client, you're adding 2000 steps. You can add two minutes in this sport.

Mikki Wiiliden (17:59.207)
Mm-hmm.

Mikki Wiiliden (18:10.524)
Yeah.

Mikki Wiiliden (18:19.417)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, totally, yeah.

Jessica (18:21.794)
Right? It's not like an hour and a half. It's literally, we're gonna add two minutes to Mickey's kettlebell set. Right? And that makes a big difference. The volume there, the increased workout and that kind of thing. I really haven't had any kind of strength training tool that's ever kind of been where you can really measure it incrementally like that. And it can make a huge difference in your strength and cardio game. But summing up.

Mikki Wiiliden (18:29.596)
Yeah.

Mikki Wiiliden (18:43.355)
Yeah, nice one.

Mikki Wiiliden (18:47.569)
Yeah, amazing. Totally. Same thing.

Jessica (18:50.719)
We'll just kind of sum up energy flux one more time. So if you were to like sum it up between calories and movement, you would say.

Mikki Wiiliden (18:59.131)
that really if you're not doing a lot of movement and you're on super low calories then the place for you to dial in is to bring that energy expenditure up.

Jessica (19:11.3)
Yep. And walking just one way. can do kettlebells too, I guess, if you want to too. You can add two minutes to your kettlebell set or you can do a five-deade minute kettlebell set or you can walk another 1,500 steps or whatever it is that you're doing. Or jump on a bike and do some zone two. But sometimes it is really good to hear coaches and professionals like us just even tell you some of the things that you can do to increase your energy expenditure in a way that doesn't feel too vast.

Mikki Wiiliden (19:13.703)
Yeah, 100%. Yeah, and this was... Yeah. Yeah, you can jump. Yeah. Yeah, you can jump on a bike and do some zone two. You can do all of it, depending on what you're doing. Yeah.

Mikki Wiiliden (19:36.529)
yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, 100%. 100%, yeah, yeah. And it's always, you know, meet the client where they're at and what they're doing and whatnot,

Jessica (19:42.177)
Right? That's my, that's kind of my, my feeling.

Jessica (19:50.412)
I say this all the time, I like to be met where I'm at. But I do think about, the walking has really been a game changer and it helps at that kind of time in the day. And the sleep is really huge everybody. So if you're walking a little bit at night, you'll sleep. I almost can guarantee you'll sleep better. And that's a wonderful thing, because it just, talk about something else that is a big time dial for sleep. But it's, yeah.

Mikki Wiiliden (19:54.472)
Yeah.

Mikki Wiiliden (19:59.836)
Nice.

Mikki Wiiliden (20:10.353)
nice one yeah

100 % 100 % nice one Jess

Jessica (20:20.035)
So here we are. You're heading off to the cold. I will continue on in the warm. I am, yeah, it's going to be cold where you're heading to.

Mikki Wiiliden (20:25.763)
Yeah and I bet you must be grateful for your chocolate dip banana I bet.

Jessica (20:32.093)
I am grateful for my chocolate dip banana and kind of everything that embodies time with my family and a walk and a treat. I mean, I'm not going to lie here, getting your nine-year-old to walk to do anything often does involve the chocolate dip banana or some kind of ice cream. you know, hey guys, if this is how you get your family to walk, it is a small price to pay. I will pay that little bit so that she understands.

Mikki Wiiliden (20:37.552)
Yeah, I love it.

Mikki Wiiliden (20:47.633)
That's alright.

Mikki Wiiliden (20:52.947)
100%.

Jessica (20:58.249)
the importance of it and what it actually is doing for your body. So it's an incredible gift. So I am grateful for that. What are you grateful for?

Mikki Wiiliden (21:02.459)
Yeah, that sounds like a win-win. It'll be lovely to see my family this weekend.

Jessica (21:11.47)
I am looking forward to hearing all the stories of your family. Everybody, Mickey has a twin sister in case all you new listeners did not know that. So fun. I still think it's so cool to have a twin. I always dreamed about having one.

Mikki Wiiliden (21:22.547)
Everyone without a twin says that. We're just most of the world. Yeah.

Jessica (21:26.164)
I know, it's because we watched all those movies and we're little. We all think it's like you sound the same, you do the same, you can trick your teachers. I think that was a big one, You know, the whole thing. I know. This episode we should call Chocolate Bananas. I decided that will be the title of it. If you look for us on YouTube, look up Chocolate Bananas. Have a very good time in the cold. I'll be sending all the good warmth to you and I will see you on.

Mikki Wiiliden (21:34.81)
Yeah, yeah, we would never have gotten away with that, but yeah. Perfect.

Mikki Wiiliden (21:48.839)
Thank you Jess, you enjoy the rest of your vacay and we'll see you next week. Bye.

Jessica (21:53.226)
I shall. Bye now.