Strength Renewed

Well, I'm very happy I'm having a cup of tea in true fashion. is June in California and I'm wearing a sweatshirt because yesterday it was 85 degrees and today it is 65. So I, when I do have the door open because I like to wear a sweatshirt. I like the fresh air and I like having a cup of tea. So I'm like, it's kind of perfect because I can be not too hot and not too cold and all of this stuff. Well, it's funny you say that because here in Auckland, it doesn't often get cold enough to wear winter clothes. But you see me, I'm wearing a polo, I'm sorry, vest, a body warmer inside. body warmer inside? What is a body warmer inside? That's thing. This here. That's what Barry calls it. calls it body warmer. it says again why we're obsessed with you because we don't say cute things like this. don't even know that I love it. But I'm going say it, a body warmer. A body warmer. In Indonesia, you get to wear your winter wardrobe year round and it's my favorite wardrobe. Whereas in Auckland, you literally cannot wear trousers. You'll be the same for like a good four months. Just put trousers on, you're going to be taking them off within about an hour of getting dressed because it's just too hot. So I appreciate your sentiment of making yourself in an environment where you can enjoy your cup of tea and feel really comfortable. Well, it's actually the perfect environment. But like once a week with you is exactly what I do. I have a cup of tea and I get comfortable because this is one of my favorite nights of the week is this little moment with you. was smiling too when we started the podcast because we were talking about our photo shoot that we did earlier in the year with our fantastic photographer. and how I really, there were so many pictures, which is not often the case where I walk away from a photo shoot being like, there were so many I loved, but I loved that she captured the essence of our podcast and strength renewed and a little bit of our friendship. And you were like, well, I love all of them too, except I did not like jumping on your back. And I kind of smiled because I respect that. it's... actually one of my favorite pictures and I love it because probably a little bit because it's not something what you would have done naturally, but I love it because it did in a cheesy way, but it's true. I got you back and you have mine and it kind of the symbolism is not lost on me. So I will appreciate the picture knowing that it's not your favorite, but also knowing that there's a richness there too. And I like it. So off we go into the land of narratives of our life and when it comes to health and wellness, but I will be smiling with that picture because it makes me think about, will always hold you on my back, girl. I'm always strong enough to hold you in my heart and actually on my back is my goal. That is truly my goal. And actually, and I do appreciate that. And what I also sort of said to you was, don't love the picture, didn't want to do the picture, but I did it because I knew you wanted to do the picture. and that is friendship, isn't it? It's oh my god, I love it. get I do I get the chills. I love it is true freaking friendship. But I was talking to a friend of mine this way. And I said, it's not like in life when you have relationships. I don't want my relationships with people that I love to be perfect. I really actually hate that word, to be honest with you. But I want the person to be proud. You know what I mean? Like I want you be proud of your friendship with me. Yeah, Like we are proud of each other and we're proud of this relationship. And that's that's the kind of feeling. And I love that. And we get to out for like 40 minutes every week. I'm obsessed with this. So I hope all of our people can feel it. we're the real deal. We love each other when the camera is on and when it's off. When the camera is off. And now speaking of, you were about to talk about inherited narratives. God. is, you flicked me that message. was I have so idea. I mean, there's we... For Mickey and I, is like for all of you all, it is very difficult for us to come up with the actual topics every week because we have so many that like we have to talk about. So, but this one, I think, especially in the work that we do, everybody comes to us and you can't help it. come with a narrative, you come with your story, you come with your food story, you come with your health story. I think, you know, a lot of the health stories that people come with for me are my family didn't grow up. We didn't grow up with a lot of exercise or that just wasn't like the most important thing or something. Or in my case, I was in the water before I could walk, like exercise and health and fitness was the beginning of the story. You know what I mean? Like it was permeated everywhere. But they assume though is that it's like, well, because it was like in my jeans, that somehow this is always just gonna be easy. You know what I mean? Like, because this was such an important part of our story that somehow, you know, it's not going to be a lot of effort and hard. I guess I think about that. you know, that's where sort of, for me, some of the health started. But then, of course, I was a competitive gymnast. And so then things got really, went a little bit sideways because of all that strength. and all the things that I was taught to like appreciate and grow from then became a little knocked on its head because then things in gymnastics that were valued were like being really small and not, you know, being strong, but not having a lot of weight on your body. And so it was a very conflicting moment and I was about, you know, nine to like 14 years old. So that has been now a bit of of weight, no pun intended, that I carry all the time. It's just that those coaches looking at you and being, you're just too big for the sport and just being like, wow, okay. So I still hear, you're too big for the sport, Jessica, a lot in my head. So isn't it kind of like how you impact that? Yeah. Yeah. And I've got a couple of like my own, I've got two things spring to mind. for me and one is my own personal early narratives around food and I will share them in a minute. And the other one is the, to your comment on it should be easy because you were like, you you were born swimming basically. So the sports that should be easy for you. And therefore what the opposite of that must mean for the person saying that is it's going to be a challenge and a struggle and it's harder for me. So I've got two points. I'm not quite sure what I want to say first. You tell me what you want to hear first, my narrative or that point. Gosh, let's go with the point first and then your narrative. Okay, so because obviously people come to me with narratives like, I was made to finish everything on my plate. Sure. And I'm just going to use that one example. And I don't know how this is going to come out, but I'm just going to say it anyway. Everyone had that mentality. It didn't matter what household you grew up in, in New Zealand, probably in America, definitely the UK, because that's where we originated from. But this is not a unique experience to you yourself. And also what I think some people do, they use it as an excuse. They don't know they're doing it, but they're using it as an excuse to not change their behavior. Like it's part of this default thing that they are unable to change. And so there is real power in realizing that you can change those narratives and actually leave food on your plate. And yes, it takes a lot of time, but I do think sometimes we default to these narratives as an excuse, and we're not wholly aware that we're doing it. And I think that's the thing. And get me on a different day and I'll be very... empathetic to the story and get me on like today where maybe I didn't get a lot of sleep because I did a webinar last night, was pretty wired. And maybe I'm just a bit fired up by the fact that people can't take responsibility for their actions. Well, I actually love that you said that because you reminded me that we're unique and that we also have the same. like you're right, that was 100 % the story in our house too. Like you cleaned your plate. You know what I mean? Like you did. But at the same point, like There's a lot of our, we can either, our narratives can either teach us and we can grow from them or they can be heavy as hell. You know what I mean? And we can like, they can weigh us down. So do you want to grow like in a fall and become like a tree or do you want to like sink into the sand from them? Because they can, because the narrative can do one or two things for you, right? It can sink you or it can, it can allow for growth. And so when you were saying that, I was like, gosh, yeah, I mean, I've held on. to a lot of a lot of those things and kind of allowed it to maybe excuse me from the ownership table, right? Like you're saying, like, well, know, right? It just excuse me from the ownership table. Like, oh, this happened to me or I had a really, you know, kind of abusive is a bit, you dramatic, but they were gymnastics coaches. And therefore I had this really and that's all true. Right. And it's part of the story. But like at some point you have to relearn a new story, you just have to you have to start creating the past ones can still be there, but you have to create another one. Otherwise, you will literally be saddled from that. And you'll never you just kind of there will be no growth option. But you're absolutely right. I was thinking about it. Like, we really love to stay with that. Like I was from the clean plate club. And that's why I overeat. And I was from the abuse of gymnastics club. And that's why I have an eating disorder. You know what I mean? All of these things like, again, None of it is untrue. It's just, can we help you move? Can we free you a little bit of that so it's not sinking you constantly down? and I do. And it's interesting because I just was thinking about other clients of mine who maybe fall more into the category that you're talking about, Jess. did have an eating disorder, disordered eating in their past. now they... are very mindful of that as they're trying to go into a fat loss journey and they want to lose weight. But the thing that comes up in their head is, have to be careful so I don't trigger my eating disorder. And so I say to them, is any of this active right now? Are you binging? Are you purging? And they're like, no, I haven't in years. And my response to them is, at some point, you're going to have to look through a different lens. You cannot. you cannot continue to look through the lens of a person with a needing disorder because that's no longer who you are. that is, to your point, very, it sort of limit a person's ability to grow if all they ever do is see everything through the lens of their previous experiences or behavior. that is a, what you just said is a, that is a very, very powerful statement. And, and, and I kind of stand with you. wholeheartedly. And that's going to be difficult, I think, for some people to hear because I think a lot of people that have gone through intense therapy will be like, well, that's a huge part of my story. So no, you know what I mean? Like, you can't tell me that I'm not looking at that lens and it's not that it's not me with the eating disorder, even though and I love how you also asked the question, like, is this still active for you? Because a lot of if we're being honest, for for all people, it's it maybe isn't active, but but yet. it's the lens that they're still looking at. that is a very interesting, and I fall there, and I bet you that's gonna be hard for some people to kind of hear because they're gonna be like, you my therapist, this is what they told me. This is like, this is still a part of how I walk in the world. I will always be this person who suffered from disordered, you know, eating or thinking, but also had the eating disorder. I think what you have to understand is like, that is part of your story. the lens, right? That is your story, like the end of story, right? Put a big fat period by it. But again, if that's the only lens that you're going to see, it's very hard probably for you to disseminate information for them and to kind of help them with an eating plan and all of these nutritional things because that's a very different thing, right? But I like that you asked, is it still active for you? Right? So do they answer like No, it is not active for me still. Or are they kind of nervous about answering it? Because if they answer it, honestly, wonder if then it takes, then it's like they don't have the excuse of whatever they're going, you know what I mean? Because that's still the crutch perhaps for them. I understand and do know that for anyone listening and is triggered by what I'm saying, it's a general conversation Jess and I are saying and we're not talking about you specifically. Whoever you are that might be triggered by this. what I really... what makes it really challenging for that particular person is that they may be in a food environment where others know that they've had an eating disorder 10 years ago and they see them monitoring their food. And then these other people have this concern for that person, like, what are you trying to do? Are you trying to modify your eating? know, so it's, they are, there's a lot of fear based, there was a lot of fear in, guess, moving forward with, what they want to achieve because of these long held beliefs that they have about themselves, that others have about them. And it's hard to get out of that box. Yet they are in a box where they're uncomfortable in the body that they're in. Like I'm talking about people who literally are carrying excess body fat that they do from a health perspective are way better. I'm not talking about somebody who wants to lose two kilos. I'm talking about somebody who might want to lose, you know, 10 kilos, 15 kilos, 20 kilos, like, you know, this little, thing that sort of holds them back. And so it's, it can be a fear for some people. I think it's crazy as you're talking, because the fear is as much in that of having to carry it as it is to let it go. Yeah. It's hard to let go of the story. So you're still carrying it, but it's also kind of frightening to like, be like, Oh God, have to, I have to leave my cell phone here and get on the airplane. You know what I mean? Like I actually have to give you it. I have to go on the plane. It's like, go eat it. We enjoy a party. What's not here. We're to take this. So like, Oh God, you're going to take it. You know what I mean? But then, but then what do I have to fall back on? Right? Like if this is how I define myself, that's right. It's such an interesting thing. It's like, it's scary to carry it, but it's also scary to let it go. But I've found that in order to, it's the old adage is true. It's really hard to move forward if you're carrying something, you know what I mean? That's prohibiting you from being able to have any kind of new lens in which to invite this thing in. And I'm fairly certain, and I know that I do this too, because it's a very nuanced line of work, right? It's not black and white. So I always am like, let's just do a little at a time, right? Don't worry about the heavy weight. Don't worry about getting to 130 grams of protein. Let's just do a little at a time. Let's just see how it feels, right? So this is probably the theme of making ingest and strength renewed. the habit, the change is just very slow, but consistently. So you find something that you can consistently do. And then I think then that part of the story. And then I don't know, do you ask your clients, after you've been working with them for a certain amount of time, do you like... ask them again, you know, how prevalent is that narrative for you now, like eight or nine or two years into working together, whatever, like is, does it feel as loud for you as it did when I first asked you that question? Do you ever ask that? It's a, it's a constant, it's a, it's a constant conversation because if you've got, and if this is how you identify, if this is how you identify yourself, then it's, you're going to come up against it every time you try and shape and do things differently. So it's, matter of shifting your identity and part of that shifting of identity, particularly from, let's say, one where you have had disordered eating. And you and I have both talked about, I've been in exactly the same boat. On the episode that we discussed my Boston Marathon and thriving versus surviving, and there was absolutely a time where I was barely surviving. Not in my head, but all areas were pointing towards that. changing that identity. Like you have to act as if you're already a person who has embodied the qualities that you're wanting to embody. Fit, strong, capable, resilient, independent. Whereas oftentimes, if you are struggling in some area, you don't feel any of that stuff. So in order to let go of one identity, you have to embody another. And it's not just this transformation overnight. It's a daily, hourly, meal-to-meal work on. Fuel yourself like you're that strong, fit, confident person that you're wanting to be, not someone who's trying to fuel themself for fear of triggering XYZ. mean, an ED is clearly a clinical condition that someone experiences. And yes, I'm not saying that it's not a lifelong thing that they may have to grapple with, but it's not always the lens with which they need to see themselves through because that is that self-limiting belief to your point that can really sort of hold people back. It keeps them in the sand rather than evolving. Completely. Like I just, think so often too, we're also tied as well to like know, images that we see, if I don't have this transformation, maybe I'm doing the things, maybe like I don't have washboard abs, or I don't like, but I'm lifting like so much more weight than I lifted, or I'm really consistent and I feel better, you know what I mean? My energy levels are greater, I'm sleeping and I'm just eating in a more sustainable way. It also just kills me, it breaks my heart, you know I mean? And I deal with this so often, it's like. a lot of women to go like, they're just waiting for this transformation piece. I'm like, you are transforming. You see the things you're doing every day. That's the motherfucking transformation piece. That right there. It's not like it's not, you know, the biggest loser coming through the door. You know what I mean? And all of a sudden, this is how you look. I think, you know, the transformation is how, how heavy is the old narrative? you know what I mean? Is it a little anger to your point? Like, Are you embodying a little more of the things that are healthy and more sustainable for your head space and as well as your physical body? So, you I think that's just a very powerful thing. And I'd love for more people to really pay attention to that when they're carrying this stuff, because these old narratives are not so, they're not so, again, black and white, like I had a bad. abusive gymnastics coach or you and I, you we grew up in families where you to clean your plate. Like those are real things, but there's also, there's so much more to that. You know what I mean? Like I held, I haven't been able to get the baby weight off in four years or I'm like, was an ex collegiate athlete and now I can't, you know, even run a mile. It's like, okay, again, that's part of your story, but here you are now. You know I mean? And how do we, how do we move forward? So I guess like the short answer would be, What would you say to that person? What would you say to that client right there? The one that's like, Mickey, I've been struggling to get this baby wig off for four years now because my kid isn't a baby anymore. There are four and I'm still carrying it on and I just feel so bad about myself. What would you say? Well, to someone in that situation, I come back to this idea of what's your actual end goal? If someone said that, like, well, what is your end goal? And if they're like, fat loss, I'm like, yeah, but really truly what is your end goal? Because it can't just be fat loss because when times get hard, there's actually not a big enough reason to keep you in the game. Like you need to really truly understand your why. Like if it isn't, even though right now that feels like the biggest thing in the world and it's absolutely fine for you to have an aesthetic goal. Like I'm not against aesthetic goals at all, but you just have to dig a little deeper if you want it to be more sustainable. Actually, I love this so much. Do you do you answer that like when people and when you kind of push like that? What do they say back? You're right. Because I know for me, it's just it's like nine times out of 10. It's aesthetic. And I'm like, yeah, I'm like, I don't think that's sustainable enough. I totally agree with your answer. What do you what do they do? They push back when you give them that answer. No, they stop and they think a little and then they give me an answer which they think that I want to hear as well after I do that, which is fine because you know what, people just haven't, and God dare I say, maybe people haven't done the deep work. Not everyone needs to do deep work, but if you do, then this is an opportunity like no one's ever presented it to them like that before. You know, like in their head, they're like, yeah, know she needs to, she wants to lose weight because she's training for a marathon. Maybe I should do a marathon. Maybe that would be the motivating thing. You know, like they try and seek, they seek out another option. But when I, when I had this conversation, we start talking about other goals. Like, do you want to be strong and fit and resilient and independent? And I share with them that, you know, I just want to be continuing to do what I love doing when I'm 80. Like everything you do now matters for what you want to do later. So. If you can, so it's, don't expect them to be able to, if I put them on the spot like that, I certainly don't expect them to come up with an answer. But what we hope to get is let's just get the ball rolling on something here. Like is there something here that you can actually sort of grasp and run with? If not now, can you just sort of percolate on it? Cause that's the thing, right? Yeah. I really appreciate that answer. I'm gonna, I'm gonna, ask that and like I'm going to continue to ask that because the amount of times people are just, is so aesthetically driven and there's a beautiful depth to the humans that are in my life. So I get it. mean, look, I, I have it too. And the very first thing I talked about with you was an aesthetic. You know what I mean? The first coach who ever said that to me when I was, you know, 11 years old, that just said, you're just too big for this sport. And it was like, Oh my God, I'm a size two. And I wait like what, you know I mean? So it completely, made me look in the mirror going like, I have no idea what I'm supposed to look like then anymore if this is what this adult's coach is telling me that I am. of course, at some point though, now I'm an adult, so I don't need this coach from when I was 11 to tell me what I am. And I also just don't need all of the, please people, all the social media and all the things that are around you. Why do you need them or that? tell you that you need this transformation anyways. Like, that's the whole thing. That's all part of this hanging on to your narrative. That's part of your narrative, by the way, That's the thing you're holding on to. I just, I believe that when we hold on to narratives that don't serve us and tell me if I'm crazy here, but that also you know, fundamentally affects the cortisol in our body. And it does all kinds of things, ironically, that probably make it hard to, you know, for our systems, our body systems to just function effectively too. So it's kind of a funny little thing that's happening, right? It is, it is. And what I will say to that is that if your narrative puts you in a state of anxiety, then that will absolutely affect your physiology for sure. Say that again, so the people in the back can hear, it one more time. Yeah, so if your narrative puts you in a state of anxiety or stress, you know, and you're ruminating over this person that you think you are and the behavior that's attached to it, then that'll affect your physiology, yes. But it's not forever and it's not, you know, and it can be changed. And I think that'll be sort of to sort of draw a line under the sand for this episode. will just have, I will say that You can create a new identity, actually. You can look at yourself differently. It is a daily work on, and it is something that has been so transformative for me in how I see myself. And you, Jess, as well. I know that you've done work here. But also, don't ever expect the work to be done. You're never just going to wrap a bow around it and go, cool, I'm good. This is just stuff you have to work on. As an adult, have to ask you really quick though, like what are the two things that you've just done so successfully and continuously to help you like just not feel so, you know, saddled by your narratives? Like what do you do? So I think of myself as an athlete. And so when it comes to fueling and it means I need to be, I need to be well fueled, well recovered. I need to, And I do know that I love being outdoors, and so I make it absolutely like a priority for my activity as well. But once you start seeing yourself as an athlete, you start appreciating so much more for what your body can do rather than what it looks like. And you actually actively want to build yourself up rather than just strip your weight down, particularly for right now with the- so good. The running and the hiking, you need to be strong. That's so good. It's so interesting because I think, and this will be something that we'll carry on into the next conversation, but what you're saying right now, so powerful for all the people out there that just feel like, know, eff it, I'm just going to go on a weight loss drug and I'll have that transformation. I'll just be thin. You know what I mean? Because I'll take this drug and it'll make me thin. And I'm not sure what I'm going do after that because I have no plan because I didn't work through all the other shit that I needed to work through. I went on the pill. But I hope that you can hear, Miki, my words and what Miki just said, because that was so powerful. And I asked you what you do and you said, look, I'm thinking about myself every day from an athlete standpoint. How can my body perform? And if I strip it, which is, I still struggle from this, like, no, no, no, Jessica, you don't get to have that. I know. Every effing day, it is such a challenge for me. And yet I too am like, you know, high level athlete who needs this, you know, to perform. Otherwise that 53 pound kettlebell is not going over my head. You what mean? It's just not gonna freaking happen. It's exactly right. Absolutely. You have deep, deep empathy for this conversation. But I love that you're like, here's what I do. I, I talk to myself like the athlete I am. So the food I'm eating and the things I'm doing are for performance and recovery and muscle building and like, It's a different conversation when you have that with yourself and I'm listening. I am listening to you. And I'm also understand where I sit half the day sometimes too, but it's hard place for me not to strip. Yeah. Yeah. And it's for so many people, so many people. you know, it's just, and I was absolutely where you were Jess, maybe about eight or 10 years ago. I was exactly where you are. You're like, not under 10 months ago, it eight to 10 years ago. Yeah, it is. And now, it's, you know, like, now the other bit, you asked about the, you know, what are two things I do. So that's one. And the other one has now been shifted just to the business space. and so I just tell myself I'm a successful entrepreneurial businesswoman. And I am, you know, and so having those narratives, which, as you and I discuss all of the time, it's about, exposing yourself to material that allows you to challenge your thinking. That's not all it is, but that's a big part of what I've done anyway. I love those two things and it's, I think it's that and it's the people who are continuing to be there. So please hear our narratives, start unpacking your old ones and hear Mickey and Jess's cause I think there's a place for it, but you're right. I mean, the amount of energy spent stripping really does kind of. take away from the success that you and I have both had as, you know, very successful business people in this field for years and all of the other things you do from athletics to family to all of it. It's a podcast. It's like, come on now, like, I don't need to be stripping. I know. Come on now, Jess. Like you're doing it. But instead of stripping, save, right? You put it back in for strength. I do think about that. because if you're out there just thinking you're gonna take a pill and all this stuff is not still gonna be there, you're wrong. Yeah, you're very, wrong. You're very wrong. also your muscle might be gone too, so think about that when you're. Exactly. What are you grateful for today? I love this conversation. Like it's always, it really does fire me up and make me, I just, like I just hope that more people hear it because I hear these, and we had one couple. couple of examples today, and it was basically around if you've had disorder eating the past, that is one narrative out of the millions that people carry. So if you can take the tenets of that identity change, which is the most important aspect of it, and know that despite how deep that narrative runs, it can be changed, then I'm hoping that that's what people get from the potty. God, I love this. I love you. I'm so happy that you're in my life, really. I'm just grateful for it. I love the work that we get to do. I love that not only do we get to do it together, but I love how many people were able to help in the process. It's kind of dreamy. Yeah. I know. I know. Really lucky. And I tell you, it's like when people say this is time under tension, it's time under thought, right? It's continual. So truly, when you do listen to a podcast like this, or you do have a conversation with somebody, or you do, it does actually serve itself long after the podcast is over, right? You're going to hold on to this, and you're hopefully going to be thinking about all the ways in which. you can expand from it. I'm really appreciative for that. I will be finishing my tea and staying nice and cozy. And I wish you were right here next to me when we drinking tea and being cozy together, but that time will come soon. Nice Jess. Enjoy your evening. Thank you. Bye.