Strength Renewed

Mikki Wiiliden (00:00.353)
pause and go to who inspires you?

Jess (00:04.078)
There's a little bit of that anyways, right, Max?

Mikki Wiiliden (00:08.118)
A little bit, little bit. Jess, it has been one long month since our previous podcast. Unbelievable, in person at least, because clearly we prerecorded and let them out week after week.

Jess (00:14.2)
Gosh, I know.

Jess (00:18.542)
Yes, exactly. You've still got to be with our friendly voices for the past month, but I have not got to see you when you've been traveling all over the place. But I think because everybody knows now in case you don't, Mix and I are, we are a special breed of humans. I am a kettlebell lifter. So I train with very heavy kettlebells, 54 pounds.

Mikki Wiiliden (00:24.0)
Yes.

Yes.

Mikki Wiiliden (00:41.335)
Yeah.

Jess (00:47.71)
For time and NYX is an ultra ultra runner it I mean, you know She just runs for very long periods of time and sometimes when I'm out there for three miles or something I think shit. She's still gonna do another 24 and then she'll do it again for the next race Apparently she'll do it the next day So and I just keep thinking to my head has anybody do it But all the time has ever talked about it for you. It just it lights you up and invigorates you and what I love

Mikki Wiiliden (00:51.383)
I just run. Yeah.

Mikki Wiiliden (01:02.358)
Hahaha

Jess (01:15.916)
the most about it is that like, it's so unapologetic for you. You're like, I don't care if any people have all these big feelings about running, right? Same with kettlebells too, by the way. It's amazing how many people want to tell you that is so cool, Mick, that you're an ultra runner and that you trained for the Boston Marathon, which we're gonna get to, or the same thing in my end, well, they'll go.

Mikki Wiiliden (01:26.651)
interesting.

Jess (01:40.622)
God, you've been training for so many years and you're throwing a kettle ball, what's a kettlebell, number one. It's actually been around for longer than any sport, really. And yeah, I've been lifting it and getting stronger every year and I'm injury free. So you tell me, you know what I mean? And yet you continue to like wanna sorta shake the apples off the tree with me and make me second guess this thing that brings so much light to my life.

Mikki Wiiliden (01:45.349)
Hahaha!

Mikki Wiiliden (01:55.98)
Amazing.

Jess (02:07.758)
But I do, it's so unbelievable the amount of running that you do. And it is really cool because you can put the feather in your cap because I think, I've run the one marathon in my life, I've run a lot of halves, but I want to tell you between you and I, I would love to have the Boston Marathon in my little bag of, I did that. I definitely wouldn't mind having that badge. So what was that experience like?

Mikki Wiiliden (02:29.431)
Yeah.

Mikki Wiiliden (02:34.899)
It was phenomenal actually. So, and when I said running is all I do, let me just clarify to any new listeners and anyone new to me, running is not all I do. I lift weights, I swim, I do these things, but running is my absolute joy. The way that you put it, is exactly how I feel about running. And what is particularly special about the majors like Boston is that's our second major. So Barry and I did

Jess (02:38.68)
Hmm.

Jess (02:44.846)
No.

Jess (02:55.703)
Mm-hmm.

Mikki Wiiliden (03:03.543)
New York in 2019 and then Boston's our second one and we were always going to run it together and to your point that I trained for Boston Marathon didn't train. So we basically came off the fitness from our multi-day run and we had about six weeks in between and we were like well we've got fitness so let's just do a few long I think I did a couple of 24k runs three of them which is by no means enough to run

a good marathon on its own. And we certainly did no speed work because we just, at this point, were just trying to, we were just thinking, right, let's recover from that other race and let's just go and enjoy Boston. So we were always going to run it together and we did. And it was amazing. And I, it was so great to be able to be fit enough as, we often are actually, like I'm often fit enough to do an event to

Jess (03:52.994)
Mmm. Mmm. Mmm.

Mikki Wiiliden (03:58.615)
Barry and I, we were just running, chatting, had a couple of low Ks, as you know, almost always happens in a long event or in any, you you question some life decisions that for me it was between 24 and 27. I call it no man's land. You're like, mate, yeah, can't go back because it's over halfway, but it's still so far to the finish. you know, we sort of, I regrouped and it was just a fabulous event, Jess.

Jess (04:13.058)
But like, it's now man's land.

Mikki Wiiliden (04:26.817)
And then I post about it on social media because of course, as an ultra runner and marathon runner, just a runner in general, plus a nutritionist, I feel like I'm in a great position to show people what they can do and what, and it might potentially be an alternative to what they hear in sports nutrition circles or if they read conventional nutrition guidelines. And I don't need to tell you that I'm an advocate for health.

Jess (04:41.389)
Mm-hmm.

Mikki Wiiliden (04:55.473)
and that I am an advocate for lower carbohydrate knife. And on my Wikipedia podcast and in my blog and in anything on social, I talk all of the time about the emerging science of using carbs strategically in a long event to prevent hypoglycemia. But also we were out running the marathon really just to have a good time. you know, it was certainly not gonna be a personal best.

time.

Jess (05:25.39)
Yeah, I think it's important to kind of go back, you know, what you said, because a lot of what we do, we're fueling to like, I would, and tell me if I'm wrong, but I'm thinking that we're fueling to finish the race strong and finish the race with the feeling of contentment. You know what mean? Like, I just did that. I feel great.

Mikki Wiiliden (05:48.321)
yeah, yeah.

Jess (05:50.798)
I'm gonna go grab dinner with my partner and do what I do. I'm not broken. You know what I mean? Like I feel energized and rejuvenated. And I would say the majority of our listeners and friends and athletes that we work with would probably love to have a similar feeling at the end of their race. You know what I mean? And so I think collectively, given all that, people do wanna know, and again, all of everything you're saying is not gospel.

Mikki Wiiliden (05:55.329)
Yes.

Jess (06:18.584)
But what you are offering is some really awesome advice on what you did. People are gonna be like, okay, I'm thinking about doing that. You looked like you felt pretty darn great at the end. Tell me what you did.

Mikki Wiiliden (06:19.211)
Yeah.

Mikki Wiiliden (06:28.757)
What did you do? Yeah, totally. And absolute, like I've been running for over 30 years. And, but I don't think that means that I'm this like person who has this really special knowledge that, that I sort of, that means that only I can do what I do, you know? Like it's not good for, you guys, you know, look at what I do. But you know what I mean though? Like, you know, like, yeah, like, like it's just so, so.

Jess (06:47.918)
think you have pretty special knowledge. I totally do. I totally do. Yep.

Mikki Wiiliden (06:57.297)
Anyway, I put up what I did and I think we might've had about 10 grams of carb per hour or something. Like I literally had a few chews. I think that's all I had from memory. That's really all, like we had breakfast beforehand, know, had some eggs, protein bar, banana, and then rolled out, did the run, had some water at every aid station, had a few chews, finished, went to a pub, basically. That's what we did, went to a brewery.

Jess (07:23.736)
and you had a beer, that's what you did.

Mikki Wiiliden (07:25.237)
Yeah, yeah, and had some fries and then went home, went out to the cheesecake factory in the evening, had a great dinner. So, you know, just, was fabulous.

Jess (07:33.56)
I'm guessing where I could possibly see this going because I think stereotypically people are probably going to go, well, I mean, how many carbs did you have, right? During your, and they're probably quite, I'm guessing, surprise, maybe by the amount of carbs you had or you didn't have in the race. maybe like, is that right? Is there a little bit of that? Okay.

Mikki Wiiliden (07:42.711)
Mmm.

Mikki Wiiliden (07:54.345)
Yeah, yeah, yes. So yeah, so I outlined this in my post.

Jess (07:57.294)
So you wrote this piece, you kind of outlined a little bit about what you ate, because inquiring minds wanna know. They wanna know what shoe you had. Did you have a potato? Did you have a banana? Did you have a steak? You're like, what was fueling you along the way? So you mentioned this, you put all that out there. Okay, and then what? Yep.

Mikki Wiiliden (08:06.879)
Yeah, yeah!

Yeah, yeah, and put the post up of how, how, how what an awesome event it was. And, you know, people just love actually seeing what people do. And then about two weeks later, I'm sitting, I, you know, we're on our trip and then come back to from my Nashville meeting with Jill, who is my business coach, come back into London, meet up with Hubster. We're sitting again in a pub.

Jess (08:19.266)
Totally.

Mikki Wiiliden (08:36.855)
And then I get an email from a client of mine. She's lovely. She's like one of just a lovely human. She's like Mickey I really debated sending this to you because I like but it made me so angry that it's clearly about you and I look I just had to share it and then she she copy and pasted something written about me and my Boston experience more than my Boston experience and how it was

how I was basically obviously just surviving and not thriving. So if you wanna run the way that she does and just survive and not thrive, you do what Mickey does. And then outlined what was wrong with my strategy. But not only that, I know, not only that, Jess, there was a whole paragraph on my running for the last 10 years. And the first little line said, compared my Boston time. So yes, it's 3.36 and yes, it's a pretty good time, but it's an hour slower than the age group winner.

Jess (09:17.559)
Ouch.

Mikki Wiiliden (09:34.805)
Let's not forget I was at a major marathon. I mean, think of who goes to...

Jess (09:37.358)
I was just going to say, I do people understand? I have to remind everybody that you don't just get to like sign up for this the night before. Like, know, I mean, you, you say like I trained, actually have been training for this run because you run significantly and you do a lot of work. So, but everybody, so the reason why it's got kind of like, you know, a different energy about it is that you have to be selected to participate in it. So it's, it's unique this way.

Mikki Wiiliden (09:44.565)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mikki Wiiliden (10:04.009)
You do. Yes. Yeah. So, so not only did did this guy compare my time to the to the winning time to point out it was an hour slower at a time in my life where arguably I should be at my peak. And my last 10 years has rapidly gone downhill and I haven't reached my potential. It has all to do with my nutrition strategy. I should not be sharing it on social media.

And here are the nutrition guidelines for elite athletes, which I mean, really was, should have felt flattered that he felt like I was elite, but that was actually the point was to, it was a hit piece on me. It was to run me down. And this guy does this. He does it, he's done it. Yeah, no, no pun intended. Anyway, so, and actually it showed a little bit of, like he mentioned that, you you should be having 90 grams of carbs an hour as an elite and literally.

Jess (10:47.991)
No pun intended, right?

Mikki Wiiliden (11:02.431)
Like if I talk to any runner and if I talk to anyone who works with runners, I mean, there are some runners who are great and they can get in that amount of carbs. Absolutely. But it does take a special kind of athlete, Jess. It's like the, the thing that allows them to digest that much carbohydrate also makes them the elite athlete that they are. you know, whereas that was obviously overlooked. And so the whole piece was how I'm surviving.

Jess (11:23.214)
Mmm. Mmm.

Mikki Wiiliden (11:29.865)
not thriving and throughout the entire thing, no mention of Barry who was running along beside me. He's a man so obviously it's fine for him to do whatever. And so I read it and then I just saw who wrote it and I just rolled my eyes and went, God, I've spent a couple of years trying not to think about you and here you are running me down, no pun intended, in this private Facebook group.

Jess (11:39.168)
Of course.

Jess (11:51.822)
Mmm.

Mikki Wiiliden (11:57.843)
So I wrote, write about it on social media and I'm like, someone just sent me this and I outlined it. And then I said, look, if they were gonna like criticize anything, should have been our training. Cause we literally had such crap. Like you say we absolutely continued to run, but that's different from training. As you know, when you train specifically for an event, you've got set sessions, et cetera. We did none of that. Yeah. And so, and then what, cause I then actually the owner of

Jess (12:00.419)
Mm-hmm.

Jess (12:18.882)
That's right. That's right.

Jess (12:25.558)
Again, I have to remind everybody that it's, well, first of all, I think anybody, you know what I always say to the people that attack you like that, especially from your back, right? Anytime you're attacking me from my back and not from my front, right? Like it says a lot about that person and what I usually do, which is I've told my kids to do as I always say, do you need a hug?

Mikki Wiiliden (12:27.606)
Yeah.

Mikki Wiiliden (12:34.54)
Yeah.

Mikki Wiiliden (12:37.97)
Yeah!

Mikki Wiiliden (12:45.751)
That is yes!

Jess (12:48.757)
I am happy to give you one because it looks like you might need one, right? Because it's really good. So you can take that with you. I'd give that as a gift to you. the other thing that is so, again, interesting about this is that your goals were met and then some. You went on this trip, you had a business meeting, you wanted to travel with bears, your hubster, and the goal was to go to this

Mikki Wiiliden (12:52.669)
Did you know what? Yes. That is so good. Thank you.

Jess (13:15.43)
very well known race, right? Be out there to not cramp, to feel energized again. Actually the opposite. was like you weren't surviving out there. You were actually thriving. That's what's so funny, right? Like you were doing everything. So all the miles, you ate what you ate. You didn't have to stop. You didn't have to stop the race. You ended it exactly as you intended to with intention, right? So it's just fascinating because I think so often people are so

Mikki Wiiliden (13:27.255)
I know, I know.

Mikki Wiiliden (13:39.574)
Yeah.

Jess (13:45.802)
single-focused and they're not even looking at the whole picture. In fact, you killed it, right? Like you said to do exactly what you intended to do. And it would have been really nice if this bro had like even consulted, like what were your goals? You know what I mean? Like, did you meet them? Right? And you could have answered very clearly. Not only did I meet them, I exceeded them and I felt really good when I was done. Like that's what's so crazy is that not everybody's goals are the same.

Mikki Wiiliden (13:50.775)
Yeah.

Mikki Wiiliden (14:01.057)
Yeah.

Mikki Wiiliden (14:10.551)
No, I, 100 % yes.

Jess (14:11.66)
You know what mean? Like even for athletes that run the Boston Marathon, that's the beautiful thing about a race is that everybody can be at the start line with a different goal of the race. Probably to finish it would be the collective goal, right? But how you do it is very different.

Mikki Wiiliden (14:18.167)
Absolutely.

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And when Barry and I, yeah, and we thought, we'd talked about it and we're like, well, if we come in under four hours, that'll be great. And we came in in 336, like, we were like, oh, stoked, right? So my PB for a marathon is 255, and that was 15 years ago. And so, that doesn't make, no, do you know what? I know, but.

Jess (14:39.533)
Right.

Jess (14:42.977)
Mm-hmm.

Jess (14:46.754)
That's so impressive. It's like my half. I'm kidding. No, I was like, but still, yeah, it's so great. Yeah.

Mikki Wiiliden (14:51.531)
Actually, it was impressive. It was impressive. So anyway, I put this thing up on social media and I get a lot of feedback as you do. But the owner of the Facebook page, and he's a run coach, he contacted me and he said, Mickey, he's really lovely. He said, Mickey, I'm so sorry. I had no idea that this piece was being written the way that it was. And I actually really like a lot of your stuff. I like that you showcase how you can do things differently.

Jess (14:57.026)
Mm-hmm. Sure.

Jess (15:02.594)
Mm-hmm.

Jess (15:19.502)
Mmm.

Mikki Wiiliden (15:19.799)
And I really apologize. And I want to give you an opportunity to just share your side of the story. And he said he was going to pay me for it. I didn't want money, Jess. was like, I'm not, want your money. I thought there was, I was like, oh, I don't want your money. So I just, yeah, the money that you gave him to write this hit piece on me. absolutely.

Jess (15:34.446)
I want his money. But you don't have to pay me.

Mikki Wiiliden (15:43.041)
But so I wrote something back Jess, because I reread what was written and what I realized about it, it wasn't just an attack on my nutrition approach. He really attacked, as I said, the last 10 years of my running, like he had some insider knowledge as to my training, as to my goals, as to my life. And yes, we were actually good friends at one point. But subsequently, I would say he's a bully actually.

which has made me move away from being friends with which really saddens me actually, because I want to think the best of people and every time there's an opportunity to prove differently, he just proves to me he's the person I thought he was. And it's actually up to me to realize this. And it's actually quite weird because I was with other friends prior to going away and he came up in conversation and I just thought a little bit wistfully of how we were friends.

Jess (16:27.758)
Mmm.

Jess (16:38.254)
Mmm.

Mikki Wiiliden (16:38.591)
You know, like it's really interesting to then have this happen and go, okay, this proves to me actually why we're not. So I wrote something back and not only did I write about the actual science because actually there's a lot of emerging research to show that, well, the first thing is, is that endurance athletes about 86 % of the time experience GI issues because they don't tolerate carbohydrate.

Jess (17:02.702)
Mmm.

Mikki Wiiliden (17:02.923)
which is why the elite are the elite, because they seldom have these types of problems that the mere mortals do.

Jess (17:09.198)
I was totally going to think about that. I think about all the porta potties. I'm like, wow, there doesn't mean lines. You are just dying out there. I would love to know that secret. We can talk about that another time.

Mikki Wiiliden (17:12.311)
Yeah, 100%. 100%. I know. No, totally. And then the second thing that I wrote about the fact that, you know, actually, there's a good emerging science that you don't need that carbohydrate if you are metabolic flexible. And then I also included the fact that

meaning women that I deal with particularly, not just women, but women, they struggle with their body composition and part of it is that they just over fuel. And then the subsequent sugar that goes in for training, for their training diet makes the energy crash later and makes it hard to make good food decisions. And this is what I see. So if we can get you off all of those carbs that you actually don't need, then you're fine. The third thing I wrote about was, well, the proof is in the pudding.

Jess (17:44.27)
Mmm.

Mikki Wiiliden (18:03.451)
I had a tremendous run from where I was, as did Barry. We were running two days later. We did speed sessions. did long, like, so there is like, yeah, if that was a, I was merely surviving, you'd probably see it and anyone could go back into my archives and see this was clearly not the case. But then importantly, Jess, after all of the professional stuff was dealt with, I had to comment on the fact that he commented on my last 10 years of my life, which

Jess (18:26.286)
Mm.

Mikki Wiiliden (18:31.357)
is where I've been building a family, I've been building a business, running has definitely not taken a back seat, but when I was really at my peak running, I was also probably the most unhealthiest I had been, you know, like I was definitely restricting a lot on my food, was definitely, my mindset around all of this stuff was so different to what it is now.

Jess (18:33.646)
Mmm.

Mikki Wiiliden (18:56.213)
And I didn't have a life. Like, I literally, and look, I didn't have a life and I managed to get 255, so fuck it. I mean, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Jess (19:02.67)
Fuck it. Yeah. You're like, I'll take the life, then the beer after the race. You know what I mean? And like feeling like a million bucks, you almost have to think that this whole story, you're always thankful in some kind of strange way. You're a little heated and you're also a little thankful. I think it's like, okay to be bold because people are like, well, you're just so nice. like, well, I'm nice to the people that energetically serve me and I'm not to the ones that do not.

Mikki Wiiliden (19:17.685)
Yeah. Yeah, 100%.

Jess (19:30.36)
but I'm grateful for their presence because they continually remind me of what I just need to continue to be mindful of inviting in, right? Because I can't do my shit, you know what I mean? Without the people, and I've said this a ton of times, so the hug is a big one for me. And then the other thing is like, it's so good. And then the other thing, like have two points on this and I'm so glad you shared it. Congratulations again for fucking.

Mikki Wiiliden (19:30.634)
Yeah.

Mikki Wiiliden (19:39.955)
my gosh, you just nailed that. Yeah.

Mikki Wiiliden (19:48.073)
Yeah, I love that so much.

Jess (19:57.378)
being a badass in all the ways, because you're my dearest friend, but you're also just an incredibly huge big wealth of knowledge. And one thing I actually love about you is that you don't tell people, you must do it this way. You offer up information in a way that's scientific, but also freaking practical. You know what I mean? There's an intuition about the way that you serve your audience and clients, right?

Mikki Wiiliden (19:59.539)
Thank you.

Mikki Wiiliden (20:17.953)
Yeah.

Jess (20:23.768)
How does that feel in your body? You know what I mean? Like, I can tell you what to do, but I also need you to feel it, right? Okay? So this is very important. These are very important things that are just sort of nuanced a little bit, but they are very important pieces of how we digest information. And like, just because the last thing I'll say, so the third point is just because you can doesn't mean you should.

Mikki Wiiliden (20:28.641)
Yes.

Yes, 100 %!

Mikki Wiiliden (20:41.591)
Absolutely.

Jess (20:53.294)
And we deal with this all the time in this industry. People just come out there and say whatever the hell they want. And I'm a big believer in if I say the thing, there might be repercussions for it later. So I just have to be fucking mindful. You know what I mean? I can say it, but I just need to be mindful of what the consequences might be for saying it. People just, they don't do enough thinking before they speak. Those are my three things. Mostly remember the hug.

Mikki Wiiliden (21:05.685)
Yeah.

Mikki Wiiliden (21:15.485)
Yeah, yeah, no, I love it. I love the hug. I mean, there was clearly a lot of thought had gone into this piece written about me because it was a written piece. And I guess the thing which, so the other thing which I really sort of rally against actually, Jess, and I'll finish up my story after with a couple of other points after it, but is the idea that as a nutritionist, I hold all of this knowledge and it's only good for me. And

Jess (21:22.36)
sure. Yeah.

Jess (21:32.322)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jess (21:43.01)
Mm. Mm.

Mikki Wiiliden (21:43.627)
This is what I did, but this is not for you minions out there. So you can never experience the benefits that I get because you don't have the experience, you don't have the knowledge. It's not, you know, not safe. I mean, that's so ridiculous. you know, it doesn't even come into it. But that is the attitude that was conveyed to me.

because I had a conversation actually, well it was an asynchronous conversation. We were sending voice notes over Instagram with the owner of the Facebook page who subsequently after, well basically the piece was put up and then it had to be taken down because so many people were up in arms about it because so many of them were people who follow me and have really helped. So it didn't go the way that it was intended, so it was taken down. So I don't actually know whether the piece that I had written in response actually went up on the page.

But one of the points that was made from the owner of the Facebook page, who is lovely, he said, you know, just got to be mindful that the advice I've received from this person, and I think I'm just going to share it with you, is to be mindful because of who you are and who you're talking to. And I'm like, no, I don't accept that at all. I am, you know, I am an experienced runner. I am an experienced nutritionist.

I am here to share this information and to give you options and in no nowhere on that post, if anyone went back to see, did I say, this is the way you need to do it? It was like, hey, if you care about your metabolic health, here are some, know, I can't even remember how I placed it, but look, basically I said, you don't have to put all that shit in your body. Cause I actually don't think that you should. That 90 grams of carbohydrate for most people just particularly running doesn't cut it. But only runners, I know.

Jess (23:23.414)
It's a crazy market. It's a crazy market, you know? They really go at those gels and all the things. It's kind of insane. like, yeah. I mean, the backpack of stuff that you believe that you should take when like, and I'm not even saying that I haven't done it. It's just that that's a lot of chews and gels. If you are not like on race day that you believe that you need to maybe.

Mikki Wiiliden (23:27.519)
And only runners would be able to tell you that.

It is, and...

Jess (23:48.248)
consume, you know what mean? And maybe you haven't been consuming that on a regular basis. Like, that's a whole nother story, but it's, they're just a lot. think, I think, you know, I think that it's important to have discussions. It's, it's never been to me, very feasible when we attack, right? Like,

Mikki Wiiliden (23:53.067)
know. Yeah.

Mikki Wiiliden (24:09.117)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jess (24:09.91)
Right, attacking, there's no conversation, there's no opportunity to be curious, to discuss, ask questions. At no point did this guy ask you a single question, right? He just made assumptions. He attacked and made assumptions, right?

Mikki Wiiliden (24:16.512)
Yeah.

No, not at all. yeah, yeah. so, two other things. One is you have to build your fat metabolism. I'm sure I wrote that in my post that, know, when it's just, you know, when you are able to build your, which is part of being an endurance athlete, like you have to build your ability to utilize your fat stores. Cause so many athletes do not have good fat metabolisms. It's just, and training won't cut it. Diet makes a difference.

But the final thing is, is to your point, which you said beautifully before, in our last message, again, the owner of the Facebook page apologized for it. And I just said, hey, don't, don't worry about it. Like I'm not, he said, I'm so sorry at this, I'm not actually, cause this guy's been a bully for a number of years. And this just reminds me of that. and cause I, I was, spent like,

If I say I wasn't affected, that's an absolute lie. Of course I was. Yeah, of course I was.

Jess (25:20.984)
glad that you were a little affected by it. You know what I mean? Like it meant that like, you know, it's okay to feel affected. It's just how you choose to address it and then, you know, where you choose to go after.

Mikki Wiiliden (25:27.925)
Yeah.

Mikki Wiiliden (25:31.895)
Totally, totally. And I just said that I wasn't upset that it happened. I was upset about it, about the whole, that he did that, but it was a good reminder for me actually. So yeah, so I just...

Jess (25:48.418)
What was it the best reminder of for you? Like what was your biggest takeaway from it?

Mikki Wiiliden (25:54.315)
then I'm pleased that I do not have him in my life. That was a big, that is absolutely.

Jess (25:57.166)
Yeah, and that you got a beer after you did the Boston Marathon. Like I think again, you're like, yes, we're gonna go do dinner. I'm excited, I great. I'm not gonna go just like I need to go lay in a dark room. You're like, I actually feel invigorated and I'm happy. Like these are like huge wins, right? These are huge wins, you know?

Mikki Wiiliden (26:03.543)
Yeah!

Mikki Wiiliden (26:11.105)
I know, yeah.

They are. And the great thing is, is that my time of 336 has qualified me for Chicago in 2026. Like, mean, I mean, seriously, like, I just, there are so many wins. If this is surviving, I can't f*@king wait to see what thriving looks like because hell, man, I want that. Yeah, yeah.

Jess (26:32.11)
Bring it, bring it. I'm so glad that you did it. I'm so happy you shared it. was cheering you on literally. It's so exciting for me that you did that. Because there is something, like Boston Marathon is street cred, right? You just like, did this thing and I did it and I felt great. And I will say that is 100%, not even nine times, it's 100 % the way that I want to feel when I

Mikki Wiiliden (26:48.543)
Amazing. Yes.

Jess (27:01.422)
when I'm done competing is I want to feel like, not only am I excited emotionally to go do it again, but I don't want to feel broken. You know what I mean? I want to feel integrated. But it is so amazing to me and it will never stop being amazing to me how many opinions people have about your life.

Mikki Wiiliden (27:09.633)
Yeah.

Mikki Wiiliden (27:17.527)
I know, isn't it? And I... But also, yeah.

Jess (27:20.558)
It's a lot of opinions and a lot of things, but then again, it gives you the opportunity to reflect on the energy that you do want to invite in. And I'm always happy for that kind of stuff because if I can't, I need to have people in my life that think I'm a little crazy, but also would a hundred percent go to the mat for me and would a hundred percent speak of me. I love this. And I tell my friends, I'm like, I want you to be proud of our friendship. I would be like, I stand for Jess, I stand for Mickey, like just proud.

Mikki Wiiliden (27:28.833)
That's exactly it.

Mikki Wiiliden (27:47.191)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, 100%. Yeah. Yeah.

Jess (27:50.488)
Think I'm totally crazy because I am. You know what mean? But be proud of the fact that you share in this friendship. I know I am for you and I'm, you know. So I hope people can feel that. that's a good old story and I hope that you'll share it again, like the piece at least so we can read. Because I'm also curious to know the insight nutritionally and metabolically about.

Mikki Wiiliden (27:55.701)
Yeah.

Yeah. a hundred percent back, Jess, a hundred percent. I know. Yeah.

Mikki Wiiliden (28:17.489)
I'll send you. Yeah, yeah, I'll send it to you. I'll send it to you. And if anyone else is interested, let me know in the DMs and I'll send it to them as well.

Jess (28:17.59)
You know, right? Like I'm like, yeah, okay, good. Send it to me and that'll be perfect. Okay, great. Okay, great.

Jess (28:25.142)
Because I think we should all know how we can stay a little bit away from those port-a-potties when we're running and also just feel good because this is like a really different kind of narrative because I think people immediately think when they're running that they need to basically be like eating 70 bananas like all of the carbs and all the like I know I do and yet here I am in my sport and I'm like strength training and it's like all the protein so something isn't like sort of

Mikki Wiiliden (28:29.237)
HAHAHAHA

Mikki Wiiliden (28:41.943)
I know, I know.

Jess (28:49.866)
know, gelling, but right to like what the sears. So it's like, I'm excited because there's always an opportunity to like be curious and talk more about it. But I'm glad that you said that and it's super important. And I'm going to ask you what you're grateful for tonight because there's probably a lot in there.

Mikki Wiiliden (28:51.169)
I know, totally.

Mikki Wiiliden (29:04.011)
Well, you know what, I've got a lot to be, so much I'm grateful for. The last thing I will say is that please no one take this as that if, you know, if you do, because I know elite, amazing runners my age who are killing it, having a shit ton of carbs and they are amazing and awesome and I love that for them. So I just wanted to put that in. I am grateful, Jess.

Jess (29:29.558)
And that's what you do. But that is the whole point is that this is your perspective. This is the bombastic way. At no point have you ever said the only. You just said yours. And that is a very big distinction. These are our experiences. This is our research. This is what we're finding. This is not the only. It's just ours. That's it, right?

Mikki Wiiliden (29:38.219)
Yeah.

Mikki Wiiliden (29:41.751)
Yeah.

Mikki Wiiliden (29:52.715)
Yeah, 100%. So I am grateful for the opportunity to do what I've done over the last month. I'm grateful to be home and I'm grateful for being back in the podcast studio with you, sharing the stories. And yeah, so been so great. Good to see you.

Jess (30:01.048)
Hmm.

Jess (30:10.989)
I love that. It's so good to see you. And I'm grateful for being always in a place where I can be, I can speak in a place that feels open and supported. And I think there is just so much power in that. And I'm so grateful that you completed your Basa marathon and you felt as good as you did. And I'm very happy that you're back because I missed you. And I can't wait to unpack all of the rest of your travels because that was just one piece.

Mikki Wiiliden (30:37.751)
I know.

Jess (30:40.462)
But I wish everybody out there a healthy, what was I saying earlier, a May-Sember. I know May is very hectic for all the people out there. So especially if you're a parent, it's a little bit crazy. So good luck to all of you. And I can't wait to be back with you next week, Max. Stay tuned for more of our adventures.

Mikki Wiiliden (30:46.977)
Yeah.

Mikki Wiiliden (30:51.873)
Totally.

Mikki Wiiliden (30:57.151)
Amazing. Thanks Jess. Yeah. See you later.