Strength Renewed

00:18
Jess. Hi, Nikki. How are you? I am, you know, I'm a little bit, I just think a lot caffeinated for whatever reason. I got a really good night's sleep. And I had been not drinking coffee the entirety of the day, but at a certain point I have coffee and then I just switched to like a really nice tea and it makes me feel like a million bucks. Ah, amazing. I, on the other hand, weirdly. You're tired. Yeah, I am. Well, I was awake a lot of last night

00:48
As you know, maybe I've ramped up my running in sort of prep to start, you know, doing the training for this ultra marathon that we're doing. And just at night, my legs are like, I've got, it's like I've got restless leg syndrome. It's like all my tendons are pulling. And I feel like there's fluid being sort of like being retained, but I don't have cankles. So it's not fluid. It is definitely a muscular.

01:14
And so it really like legitimately kept me awake a lot of last night. So I didn't run today. So I'm hoping that they've actually like things have have settled a bit so I get a, I get a bit of sleep, but I wish I had to ask you the really quick, how many miles is an ultra marathon and when, when are you running that? Yeah, great question. So the definition of an ultra marathon is anything over 42.2 kilometers or 26.2 miles.

01:43
But we are doing a stage race. So over six days, we are running 270 kilometers. Oh my God. So what is that breakdown per day? Between 30 and 70 kilometers a day. I know. So just so I understand, you're going to do 30 miles a day for six days? No. So we're doing 30 kilometers to 70 kilometers. So they're varying distances across six days.

02:12
I'm your California bestie, remember? That's right. For a total of 270 kilometers, which is approximately, what's that, like 160 miles or something, 170 miles? I don't know. Something like that across six days. It's a lot. I just can't. And now I'm questioning myself. I mean, but again, let's like breakdown of mileage in the course of the day is roughly, is it roughly like you're basically running a marathon every day?

02:42
I think if you, yes, I think just it would average around a marathon a day, slightly over. And you've never done anything. I know we're supposed to be like interviewing like, you know, the person that you are and where you came from, but I just am still trying to fathom how in the hell you can run that many miles a day. So like, so your body, like how do you even feel restored enough to get up and do that? I mean, we're not sure. Is this your first? Let me ask you.

03:11
Is this your first ultra? It's my first stage race. Okay, which is different than the Haliside. Yes, because an ultra is like a one-day event. So you'll enter a 50k or you'll enter a 100k, 100 miles. This is like an ultra over the course of six days. It is. And actually on like training camps, because we've had a few training camps across the years where we just decide, oh, let's go and do a mission weekend.

03:37
Queenstown, right? And so we'll go to Queenstown, which here in New Zealand is a bit of a mountain town. It's a touristy sort of place, which is lovely. And you will decide to run between sort of 20 and 40 kilometres a day for about three or four days. And what you find actually, your body almost warms into it. I see, okay. Like you sort of feel really sore at the start of day two, but you almost run through it to then feel better on day three. However, Jess, I just wonder at what point.

04:07
in your life, does your body not warm into it? And actually it just always feels hard. So, and that's how I feel today. I'm like, I've got to keep my mind in the game. And that's actually the hardest thing is to keep myself motivated to do some training. But I mean, I'll always train as we, as I alluded to in our previous podcast, when we were chatting about your sport history, like I can't imagine ever not moving.

04:31
But I am questioning myself as to why I even entered this. But this is very normal for me. I always go through this almost denial slash rejection stage of the event itself. And then I get more motivated. It definitely ebbs and flows with my motivation. Well, it's fascinating because you asked me last time we talked, you're like, so my sport is shorter, right? It's like 12 minutes, 15 minutes, 10 minutes, 30 minutes. And yours is like 200 miles.

05:00
It's quite different. You're like, how do you not go long periods? And I'm thinking long periods, like 45, 60 minutes. So it's so interesting. It is so relative. And you know, the best part is, as we talked about this, is you have to find the thing that brings you joy. And even in my 12 or 10 minutes of hard, you know, hard kettlebell sport intervals, it's, you know, it's...

05:27
It's scary, there's always a little bit of fear, but there's always a whole lot more joy. So I think you just, you find your thing and it sounds like for whatever you, you know, it's all an experience. So you're going to try it and you may decide to do this, what is it? Stagecoach thing? What's it called again? Okay. It's Shite Your Ice. I'll bring my horse. It'll be perfect. You'll do that. But I think that's what makes you pretty exceptional. So just kind of.

05:57
plant this potential seed in your head and then even attempting and go off of it. Cause I think just showing up and going for it is the win. I agree. And in fact, and like I talk like I, and I have to remind myself of that. And you know, we were out yesterday and it was, I was feeling pretty sore for just this injury thing that I'm managing right now. And another neural problem. And which is what I think my legs are actually related to. But I was just sort of trying to ground myself in the fact that how lucky it is that it's a Monday morning

06:26
And I am out in nature and Hubster is there as well. And we are sharing this experience and you know, I'm just so grateful that I have that opportunity. So, so it's, it's an, I've really learned over the years to bring my mind back to that because there was really a time when I would begrudge almost every run that I quote unquote had to go on, not even sort of putting like, it was such a disconnect between the fact that I actually signed up for these events. So I didn't have to do it, but I.

06:55
I was one that chose to. So I've really sort of moved beyond that, which I've got to say I'm pretty proud of for myself, to have sort of reached that place. And it just means that when I have a run like yesterday, which was physically challenging, I know that I'm getting a lot of mental strength from it. And I'm really, you know, like it's sort of- I love that. That's good. Yeah. Greasing that groove. I love it. For all the physical challenges, I love that you're like, but I'm gaining a shit ton of

07:25
like emotional and mental fortitude from this, which right, I mean, one is not, you can't disconnect them. They, they, they happen together. I, well, I, I love it because you are a doctor, but I think we should just like remind everybody what you are actually a doctor of. And then I'm going because even though we are near and dear to each other, we both have relatively complicated last names. So

07:50
Mine is GVase, which is no one including myself and I can pronounce sometimes. And your amazing last name. So you are obviously Dr. Mickey and I love to absolutely hatch it, but I'm going to go for it right now. I'm going to say it is perfectly, I'm going to say it perfectly, Willaden. Yeah. Amazing. Did I get it right? I just need it to elongate. Sometimes I want to shorten your last name. I want to like say Willaden, but it's not, it's Willaden. It's like a long race.

08:17
Yes, and you know, it actually is. And people do what you do, well done, or they do well in din, they elongate and put a stop sort of in it. But yes, that is that. But I'm happy to be known as Dr. Mickey. Actually, that is not true. Like, it's interesting, Jess, like I know a lot of, a lot of people, a lot of people don't mind, or are known as doctor, whatever their last name is, or whatever in our space. But I sort of feel like, I mean, I do have a doctorate.

08:47
And yes, that means that I'm a doctor, but it's not a, like, I don't like the title necessarily. And it's not, it's absolutely nothing against doctors. But in fact, it's quite the opposite. I feel like those people who went through medical school have actually earned and deserve their title and status as doctor. But you've got the likes of people who have done nutrition, which is what mine is in public health nutrition, or, you know, physical education or exercise

09:16
are we really deserving of our doctor title? And I know people will say yes. And I just, I'm not sure. I'm just more comfortable being known as Mickey Willidon PhD rather than Dr. Mickey Willidon. I don't know. It's not funny. Well, I'm just gonna mess it all up and call you Dr. Mickey Willidon, like super awesome freaking human. So I'm gonna like make your name. I'm actually gonna make it as long as possible. But with all that being said, I think everything that

09:45
that you're doing is important to the field. So at the end of the day, I think anybody that has, whether you wanna put the doctor in front of your neighbor behind it, you're doing something to improve health and healthcare in our world and that's super important. I wanna know just kind of like very straightforwardly, what got you into this field? Like if you had to kind of like answer this question to yourself, what originally drew you to getting a PhD in the first place? Yeah, so.

10:13
I think my early obsession with nutrition and exercise, because that's what it is. It's an obsession that has been lifelong and it's just evolved over the years to a much different space to what it was early on. But it really grew from two places. One was my mother, because she was overweight as we were growing up and I'm a twin and I was the overweight one between me and Laurie. And so...

10:42
So I was more like my mum like that. So when my mum dieted, it was actually really good bonding experience for me to also diet with her. And I know that sounds terrible and I would never recommend it to anyone now. Like, oh yeah, bond with your child by getting them to go on a diet with you. Of course you wouldn't even do that, but this is in the eighties where we didn't know any better, eighties and nineties. So it was certainly my mother sort of sparked my, I guess, interest in manipulating your diet for...

11:10
you know, for what you looked like. But then there was a basketball coach when I was in form three, which is freshman year at high school. And all of my friends played basketball and I was just useless, was terrible. And I was also unfit. And I used to write myself fake notes for physical ed, phys ed classes and stuff like that. Like I was not interested at all, despite the fact that I would want to go on a diet. I was never interested in actually doing exercise.

11:40
And he, and my phys ed teacher who also happened to be coach of our women's basketball team, but also New Zealand women's basketball team. So he was the top coach in the country. He was so lovely. He didn't really care much about physical education though. I don't know, he told us that the center of gravity was like the tip of our nose and that's why you like fell over. Like I'm not sure how much of that he was just teasing, but he said to me, he was like

12:08
You know, you don't have to be good on the sports field because you're pretty good in the classroom. So, you know, it doesn't really matter. But all of my friends, Jess, at the time were really athletic. And I had FOMO. I really wanted, and I also just sort of thought, well, why can't I be good on the sports field? Why can't I prove him wrong and be good at basketball? So over our summer between freshman and sophomore, third form and fourth form,

12:37
This was when I went on a diet with my mum, a serious diet, and I started running. And I'm like, I'm gonna show you, Mr. Dickel, that I can play basketball. So first I've gotta get fit. So, and you know, I came back to school and we had like a fitness test and I came second in the class. And I remember his eyes popping out of his head seeing that I was like second. And that was just, and even though his comment

13:07
me like someone might have portrayed that as or sort of thought that was like quite a negative thing to say. Like I'm just so thankful that we had that conversation that one time and in gym class because if it wasn't for that, I don't know that that it would have I would have ended up sort of where I'm at. So he was still right. I was still absolutely terrible at basketball, that's for sure. But he fast tracked essentially your drive, your determination, your competitive nature to like I

13:35
I can do this, I can be killer in the classroom and I can be killer on the court or the track and field or whatever it was. And so then you sort of kind of got this like need for speed, if you will. So you're like, I'm going to start running and become really good at this sport. And then kind of what happened after that, then what was the next step? Yeah. So across my teenage years, I was just, you know, dabbling in the gym and running and just, I just physical activity became a habit and it became part of my life.

14:05
And it really did. And in terms of nutrition, I was always interested in healthy food, but didn't always necessarily know what was healthy. My friend and I used to make cheesecakes that were fat free and then eat the entire things. So you're still skewed on the food front, but always still this interest and desire to eat well in a way that made me feel fit and that kept me slim.

14:31
I wasn't actually that successful. I absolutely went through periods of putting on five pounds, five kilos, and then losing it. That was feeling normal. It wasn't until I got to university and I was intending to do phys-ed, not nutrition, but phys-ed as a degree, but I was put off for a couple of years actually of doing it. It wasn't until my third year at university that I'm like, right, no, I'm just going to do it.

14:59
And so I thought I wanted to do accounting and be rich. I'm not sure what I thought, but anyway, it was super boring. So I thought, right, I'll do phys ed. And then- Kitchen board. Yeah, exactly. And then in my phys ed class, I had a couple of girls who I was flattening with who were also doing nutrition degree. And they were like, it's perfect. Because at that point I realized I did not want to be a personal trainer. Like that was the last thing that I was, so not my personality. So-

15:27
I thought, well, I might as well just do nutrition. I like food. So, and that was the thing that sort of set me off. So then I did my, so I finished those degrees. I did my master's in obesity. So, so I was, as a geek, I was just really interested in the research side of things. And, and I was initially interested sort of from a research perspective on more population based health strategies like obesity and like.

15:56
stress management and things like that. But clinically, and I was interested in athletes because I myself was an athlete and I still identify as an athlete, even though I'm clearly a different athlete now than what I was then. But also fat loss because of my own. Yeah, clearly you're the kind that runs like 200 miles in six days. Yeah, but you know how good you are. You know what I mean.

16:25
So I did my postgraduate at Otago and then did my PhD whilst I was working as a lecturer at a university. And I finished that maybe 13 years ago now. So yeah. If you could say one thing about all of this research and all of the education and everything, even is still the thing that...

16:54
you're most passionate about, what would it be? Learning.

17:01
I love learning actually. And this is where, and this is sort of like stepping back from what I know, it's more about, you know, there are so many ways to get to arrive at a similar professional space that I'm in, you know, and that you are in. And you know, all you have to do is go on social media and see these accounts of macro coaches, menopause coach, you see Menno Shred. You see...

17:30
you know, all of these programs targeting and not targeting, that's the wrong word, for women of our age, which is essentially what, you know, this, what we're doing here, we're wanting to provide this sort of education, but more than that sort of platform for people. And I think that you don't, it's not necessary to do a science degree in nutrition or to do postgraduate degree in nutrition to call yourself and to be an effective coach.

18:00
Obviously the relationship piece is really important, but I do think that many people can help someone get where they want to go, but there are few people that can really sort of pull back if things don't go right. Like if things are going right, then you're fine with any old macro-culture, you know, program. But it's when things don't go right and these people don't have the experience or the knowledge or the background or who know how to understand research.

18:30
a real problem. And research is hard to understand. And I have been in this space, you know, as I said, I got my PhD like, what did I say, like 13 years ago or something. And so I've been reading research since beginning my masters all the way back, you know, 25, 26 years ago. And even now I look at some research papers and I'm like, what the hell am I looking at? Not because I'm an idiot, but because it's complex. And so

18:59
So I, it is, I kind of feel like it's the person who can, I love what you said about, it's not when things are going right. It's the person who can pivot with you and things are maybe going awry. Yeah. Right. And I think they think you knew that is just a wonderful point and somebody who's seasoned and sort of has this like wealth of knowledge, right? It did not just so zeroed in on one certification or one degree or very limited experience of the people that they're working with.

19:29
You just don't have the same kind of foundation to work with. And I think for you, it sounds like, would you say you're not only skillful at disseminating all this research, like taking this information, but then you're also able to sort of give it to your clients in a way that's right for them? Right? Because like, all this information is meaningless if you don't actually know to take what is important from it.

19:58
Yeah, a hundred percent. And I feel, and I think the reason why I bring it up, which keeps me sort of passionate in my job is because of what you said, like information is everywhere. And it's very, and I see information being misinterpreted all of the time. And then if this is the thing that, that people then sort of draw on to, um, to sort of inform their next steps or.

20:25
program or anything like that, then that's where I feel it's my responsibility with the knowledge that I have and the training that I've got to actually call out certain programs or positions and say why this is in fact my informed opinion. It hasn't always been in my personality to sort of stand in that space as an expert. Maybe that's part of the, I don't like being called a doctor.

20:53
like maybe this is all sort of tied into it, but it's actually that I've grown more comfortable in that space and possibly because of the absolute influx of these other people who speak with authority that they shouldn't necessarily have. And therefore, that's why you're a doctor. It's understanding that

21:20
human brain, but it's really, it sounds like I think the specialness of you is that you've got all of this experience and then you, you know, your, your experience and your skills are only as good as how you use them. Right? You're literally like you're using them in the best way possible in the way that makes the most sense for people. Because I think sometimes we almost have too much information. We need less. We just need the right information.

21:50
think about this information, how it pertains to, you know, a very important demographic of women. Yeah. You know, and how they can benefit from it. So it's nice that you literally kind of are like a library of treasures. You know, all of this information is pretty fantastic. I still, sorry, I still can't get over. I'm trying to think to myself, how in the world can I do like a marathon every single day? But I think you, you, you just say, you know, one thing I would, I would, I would say is

22:18
Do you spend a lot of time on your own and you and have these kind of nutritional planning prior to a race like this? Are you really strategic about your food planning going into something like this and leading up to it? Certainly we'll need to be for the planning involved in this event. I think we eat pretty well to take, like we don't necessarily do anything particularly special.

22:47
for our events because I think on balance, we try and hit protein targets. It's not like we talk about it and like how much protein, you know, like I just know. You don't? That's what I think about you when you go to better days. I'm like, oh my God, how much, I'm sure she was like doing an analysis of her protein. No, I don't need to, it's already in my head, but you know. That's right. Yes, and I just, you know, if I think, oh.

23:13
Barry, you don't have enough protein in that lunch. I'm just going to chuck an extra chicken drumstick there. But one thing though, Jess, interesting. So one thing we did talk about yesterday is actually we need to, let's go have like a period of four weeks where we do a little bit more sort of fat adapted training. So we just sort of increase our metabolic flexibility as we lead into this event. Because, and look,

23:39
My diet is by no means perfect. I am literally writing those metabolic flexibility, leaning down the road for our next podcast. Definitely. I know everything about that. Yeah, for sure. And look, I certainly don't have a perfect diet, but I don't have a terrible diet either. But there are certainly areas where we're like, well, if we're gonna get through this event, the less inflammatory triggers that we have, the easier we'll be able to recover.

24:08
to then be able to get up and do it the next day, which sadly means that beer will probably be off the table for a good four weeks. That's not so. I know, I know. But, and look, I say this, so we had this intention and we haven't yet sort of sealed the deal, but for the most part, our diet's pretty good, but that would be probably the major thing that we think about, and hydration, to be fair. Like...

24:35
So many people walk around dehydrated and it's an absolute like energy killer and you just cannot recover. So that's another thing we focus on. That's true. It's such an important part of your understanding in your field. It's such an important part for everybody's field. Yeah. You know what I mean? Whatever we are doing in our life, whatever our life asks of us, there's really nothing more important than having some kind of understanding nutritionally.

25:05
and from a point of hydration, you can never be schooled enough in this area because it's such an important part of overall health. What would you say is the one, what's your mantra? What's one mantra for yourself every day? That's a good question. I have many actually that I sort of rotate through and they sort of- Yeah, okay. What are the three that come to your mind?

25:32
Mickey Mantra as well, call them. Be it till you see it. I really like that one. And I think that just brings this level of sort of confidence and it steers your mind to act in a way that you want to live your life, basically. Because you want to be this particular person. But in order to get there, you need to have actions and behaviors that align with that person. So I think.

25:59
be it till you see it is definitely one which I think about on most days. And probably because I talk to clients so much about that too, because it's such an important mindset is the most important thing, as you know, Jess, when it comes to health behavior. Like mindset is the thing. So I'm going to say that. You can't change the behavior, right, unless you're practicing it, right? And moving it forward.

26:29
curious for a PhD like yourself in nutrition, what is your most, like your hands down favorite meal? We know it's beer, it's your favorite drink. What's your favorite meal in the whole wide world? I love a good ribeye steak. Love it. It is just absolutely delicious. Using First Light. So First Light meat is, it's grass-fed New Zealand meat. It's available in New Zealand and in the US.

26:59
Oh yeah. Okay. Yeah, and it is honestly just the most delicious, beautiful and tender. And particularly when you've had a long day, either from a sort of brain fatigue perspective, or you've been training like physically hard or a combo of both, it's just so nourishing. And I think that'll be something, obviously we'll dive deep on into these podcasts as well. Jess is just the importance of nourishing food and some of the- Yeah.

27:29
perceptions on certain foods and how they just don't align with the actual food. There's so much that we can talk about. My God, I love that. No, it's so true. I think too often we nourish ourselves with things that aren't really that nourishing, to exactly to your point. I'm trying to dream about myself having a relationship with a ribeye as opposed to a cherry pie. So I think I could make that switch. Well, I think time will tell, Jess. Time will tell on our Strength Renewed podcast.

27:57
I'm here for it. I'm happy to be running No Pun Intended alongside, I'm putting your doctor at the front, Dr. Mickey Willadon. I love it. Ah, amazing. Thank you. Jess DiBiase. Thank you, C. You said it even like this. You said it like a true Italian, Mickey. DiBiase. DiBiase. Beautiful. We had the time together. Yeah, me too. All right, Jess, we'll see you next time.